Time Travel and the Crucifixion

"Time Travel and the Crucifixion," CarolynAndLoren.com

A few months ago, I (Loren Grace) received an email with the following questions about time travel and the crucifixion via the contact form on my personal website.

The answer I gave to the person who emailed me was pretty decent, I suppose, but it fell short (in my opinion) of the detailed explanation that the topic deserves. So even though this is one of those topics neither one of us enjoy addressing, mostly because it’s far too sensationalistic, here’s the longer version, with additional thoughts added by myself and by Carolyn.

⇒ Note: our personal words and opinions have been distinguished from the other by putting our names in (parentheses) so that you, the reader, can know who is speaking.


Is time travel real? I heard another woman speaking on a video with Carolyn who said they were sending people back to the time of Jesus to try and stop the Crucifixion. Can you expand on this? I just find it hard to believe. Thank you and God Bless.

Setting the Record Straight: Carolyn’s Thoughts

The “time travel” video was recorded and published during a time when I, Carolyn Hamlett, had become involved with people such as Preston Bailey (Dan Duval’s self-professed “mentor”, who eventually became an official part of Duval’s organization, “Bride Ministries”), Doug Riggs of “Morning Star Testimony Church, Inc.”, Daniel Duval of “Bride Ministries” (now “Bride Ministries International”), and eventually Rob Ruckert, one of Duval’s previous “counselors” on his team.

The associations I had with Preston Bailey and Doug Riggs during that time, and eventually with Dan Duval and Rob Ruckert, is a whole spider-web of events that I’m trying to finish writing about, but for now I will say that Christians should mark and avoid all of those men — Bailey, Riggs, Duval, and Ruckert — in the same way as they should mark and avoid anyone who unrepentantly endorses, promotes, defends, befriends, or otherwise associates with any of those men… because Scripture teaches us that it matters who we associate with!

See: Psalm 50:16-21, Ephesians 5:11, 2 Corinthians 6:14, Romans 1:32, Romans 16:17, 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 1 Corinthians 5:11, 1 Timothy 5:22, 2 Thessalonians 3:14, Titus 3:10, 2 John 1:10-11, and many other Scriptures.

As a result of having been triggered, manipulated, and handled by Preston Bailey, and eventually manipulated, handled, and indoctrinated (propagandized… brainwashed) by Dan Duvalwho I met through the manipulations of Preston Bailey — I ended up sharing information I now deeply regret.

Not only that, but I also shared through people I should not have shared with, not only through Duval’s own podcasts, but also through channels/podcasts who are or were run by people such as Kev Baker, John Baptist, Sean Caron, James DeWitt, Zen Garcia, Tony Koretz, Daniel Ott, Josh Peck, and Rob Skiba, and maybe even others I have forgotten about; and in most cases, I also shared with people who I should not have shared with, including those people I did interviews with, but also including those people I simply had conversations with, such as Paul Schlegel, who calls himself by other names, such as “Professor Truth” and “Sand Shark”.

Some of those people I once considered to be friends! But what I said before about Duval and Bailey also applies to the above-named people, as well as others who I used to personally associate with and promote and defend and who I will be naming when it is appropriate: Christians should mark and avoid all of those people and should also mark and avoid anyone who unrepentantly endorses, promotes, defends, and/or associates with any of them!


Because just like Duval, Preston, Riggs, and (as of the last I knew) Ruckert, they are spreading and promoting false doctrines — often though different forms of fear-mongering, as well as through their focus on sensational topics that serve as click-bait to lure sensation-seeking individuals — spreading and promoting the false doctrines of other people, and are leading others astray with distorted and unbiblical theologies, and with many of them, are even leading people into accepting, promoting, and defending blatantly Luciferian (Satanic), occult philosophies and practices.

I haven’t been very vocal about many of these people since I left Bride Ministries, nor have I come right out and named a lot them (although that is changing now!), mostly because I have hoped they would see their error and repent. And, too, because I haven’t had much emotional, mental, or physical energy to deal with it, especially because of illness. But since some of those very people asked me several years ago … WHY I was leaving Bride Ministries, and WHY I was renouncing my association with Duval and others, I thought they actually cared about and believed what I had to say and believed in my testimony enough to take my warnings seriously!

Yet, I don’t believe any of them have read much of my and Loren’s explanation, especially our book, or at least have not read with understanding, because none of them have shown the least bit of concern for the demonic doctrines they are following after and supporting and promoting, and in fact, from what I can see, they all have continued down the same occult-focused path as they were before.

I don’t know any of their hearts or private thoughts, so I can’t say with 100% certainty that they are consciously and with ill-intent doing this, and I do hope they see their error and repent! But looking back, I can clearly see now how they have been infected with false doctrines and are actively spreading that infection to as many people as possible. And, looking back, I can also see where my lack of discernment in seeing this about them was symptomatic of having been manipulated and handled much of my life to the point where I too easily and too quickly trusted the very people I should not have trusted! And, looking back, I can also see where all of that led to me being used to spread some of those infectious false doctrines, too… and also, because of my close association with some of them, giving the appearance as if I agreed with their false doctrines (which I do not), which is just as bad!

And I am deeply sorrowful for the part I played in all of that.

This is a very painful part of my life that is complicated and multi-faceted, and it will take much more than these simple statements on this single blog post to fully unpack. It is something that I am trying to work on getting out, but not only is it very painful and soul-wrenching to talk or write about, but my health issues have also been making it difficult to do much of anything at all.

But for now I want to remind people again: “DON’T PAY ATTENTION TO MY PAST INTERVIEWS.”

Here’s what I already said on an earlier blog post >>>Zetas, the Illuminati, and Satan’s Ultimate Plan<<<

Even though I was originally talking about my past interviews with Tony Koretz of “A Minute to Midnite”, I want everyone to know that my announcement can also be applied to previous interviews, and it also includes more recent broadcasts that were made without my permission.

Here is my previous announcement:

Please read my (Carolyn’s) blog post here: “Welcome to My New Blog Site!” In it, I state:

For those who used to follow my old blog, “Beyond the Physical Realm,” I shut that blog down for several reasons. I will probably go into detail later on, but the main reason I shut that blog down is because through my affiliation with certain charismatic individuals who, unfortunately, I had trusted to disciple me, I had slowly become infected with the demonic doctrines they were teaching me, specifically in regards to ungodly spiritual warfare. In Fall of 2016, the Spirit of God began showing me where I had deviated, and so I began to divorce myself from everyone I knew who had been teaching, practicing, and promoting false doctrines, beginning with Dan Duval and Bride Ministries. The Spirit of God continued showing me the false doctrines that I had been indoctrinated with and had started to believe in and had been sharing with others, so I began going through old blog articles, trying to clean them up. I was shocked at the amount of false doctrines that were peppered throughout many of my blog articles and interviews I had done with others. It grieved me, and still does grieve me, to realize that I had been sharing things that weren’t lining up with God’s written Word. Much of it was very subtle, but the infection was plain to see.

Furthermore, I had also shared some things from other people and other ministries that were very much contaminated with false doctrine.

So, realizing that “cleaning up my blog” was proving to be more difficult than I had originally anticipated, I decided to shut that blog down and restart fresh.

So please PAY NO MIND to earlier interviews, including those interviews done with Tony Koretz of “A Minute to Midnite”.

My testimony of being delivered through the power of Jesus Christ has remained and will remain the same; however, when I first began sharing my testimony, I wasn’t careful in my associations! I was trying to get my testimony out in the best way I knew how at the time, and I didn’t realize (at the time) that the people who were “helping” me get my testimony out were teaching and promoting new age garbage! As a result, having shared my testimony through such occult-minded individuals caused me to be associated with their occult garbage, and in turn, I began to be corrupted, even subtly.

Do not be deceived: “Bad company corrupts good character.”

1 Corinthians 15:33

The Spirit of God has since shown me a lesson that was hard-learned, that it matters who I associate with!

⇒ See: “Tolerance is Not a Fruit of the Spirit

Furthermore, many of the experiences I shared on those interviews were/are being used by unscrupulous people who have their own personal agenda that is not in line with what is God’s plan, but with what is Satan’s plan. This is one reason why I regret sharing much of what I have shared in the past.

Additionally, many times when I shared my experiences and tried to point people to The Solution — which is Jesus Christ and relationship with the Father and the truth of His Word — the host would insert their viewpoints (that did not line up with God’s Word), and I was not given a chance to fully explain myself, nor to denounce what they were sharing, and it left people with the impression that I fully supported and agreed with the host when I did NOT.

Also, some of the “solutions” I began to share were not based upon encouraging people to walk according to God’s standards that are found in His written Word. At the time, I thought since my audience were “Christians” — so I had thought — that that was a given and didn’t need to be talked about, because I thought Christians should already know that! So the “solutions” I started sharing began to revolve around a type of “spiritual warfare” that was not based upon Scripture, but upon occult doctrine, although I didn’t realize it at the time because I had been duped! For instance, I began encouraging people to use “formula prayers”, or to daily pray to “put on the full armor of God”, as if Christians should ever “take it off” in the first place…! Those things are not based upon properly interpreted Scripture, but are fear-based and occult-based. 

⇒ See: “How to Pray” and “Spiritual Warfare: Praying Against…?

And so I didn’t share my testimony in a forum that was pointing solely to GOD as the Solution and to the properly interpreted WORD OF GOD as the Solution, but in a forum that was focused more on the sensational, and on learning about the occult rather than learning about God’s Word.

That was a big mistake, and I am deeply sorry for it.

So don’t waste your time with past interviews.

What IS important is the information Loren and I have here NOW, on this website, on Loren’s website, on my new website, and in our book, because it’s not infected with other people’s viewpoints.

I will edit my previous articles, if necessary, and add them to my new website as I have the energy, but if you want to hear about my testimony, read what we have HERE.

If you want to know what I have to say and what I think about things, read what we have HERE.

Don’t go to previous interviews.

Don’t rely on other people to tell you what they say I have said and what they say I believe.

Not only does it give the false perception that those people are my friends, or that I approve of them, or that I validate them as a person … which in turn causes their followers to falsely believe that they, the people who claim to be my friend, know all about me and are “qualified” to speak for me or on behalf of me, when, in truth, the only person who knows me well enough to do that is Loren Grace, but even still, she doesn’t speak for me, and only shares on my behalfwhen I ask her to do so.

But it also gives the false perception that I validate them as a group or as a “ministry” or as a so-called “truth-seeker”… and it gives the false perception that what they are saying is true (compare what they say with God’s written Word, and you will be able to recognize the lies for yourself!).

And some of them are lying and twisting my testimony around to make others believe lies and to give the false perception that my testimony validates their unbiblical theological/spiritual beliefs. For example, read “Announcement Regarding Laurel Glaze“.

So please ignore past interviews. If you want to know what I believe and what I am saying, or to read about my testimony, read the content of this website and my website.

end of my previous announcement

Next, I want to emphasize that the time travel video (and the others that came soon afterwards) was recorded several years back, before the Spirit of God opened my eyes to how I had been deceived and lied to (and eventually lied about), and indoctrinated into an unbiblical theology by Dan Duval and Preston Bailey of Bride Ministries … and before God opened my eyes to how I had been deceived and lied to (and eventually lied about) by individuals associated with Duval’s so-called “ministry” … as well as deceived and lied to by a host of other people (and in many cases, those people lied about me, too … or, stayed silent while others lied about and maligned me, yet some of them still publicly pretend to be my friend…!) … and all of those people run in the same charismatic occult (satanic) circles, endorsing, supporting, defending, befriending, and otherwise associating with one another!

Is it any wonder why I and Loren take every opportunity to remind people of what the Bible teaches, that IT MATTERS WHO WE ASSOCIATE WITH! We say this because we have both learned the hard way!

Some of those interviews that have come out since I left BM are either old interviews that are being purposefully advertised as, or naively thought by their viewing audience as, being new …


… they are recordings of private conversations I had had beginning around 2014, with Paul Schlegel, when I was still involved with BM, that have since been made public without my permission.

I want to go into some detail here, because not only do I want to make it publicly known that the audio recordings that Paul Schlegel, a.k.a. “Professor Truth”, has made public of private conversations I had had with him, as well as with another person, were produced without my permission; but as embarrassing and painful as it is for me to share this, it’s also important to offer at least one example of what I mean when I say that during my time at Bride Ministries, not only was I being manipulated and handled by Preston Bailey, but also manipulated and misused by people who he put me into contact with and who he vouched for, sometimes by word, but also by the very fact of his close association with such people.

So what follows is an example of what I mean when I say that I too easily and too quickly trusted the very people I should not have trusted.

I hope what I’ve been through is a warning to other survivors, reminding them of how easily it is for us, as survivors of abuse and trauma, to not trust our own instincts… to not stand up for ourselves… to not know how to say “no”, or to not even believe that we have a right to say “no”… to believe that other people have the right to do what they want to do to us, and to say what they want to say to us, but that we are to stay silent. And many times, trauma survivors have been manipulated and handled throughout our lives, that sometimes it’s the only type of relationship we are really capable of being involved in…!

But there is healing!

As with all things, it begins with a relationship with the Father! And as we grow and mature by His Spirit working within us, He teaches us to learn how to recognize the toxicity in our lives (those things that are not of Him); then, we can learn to face and take personal responsibility for not allowing that toxicity to surround us (to not engage it… to not give it a place in our lives…!). And then, over time, it becomes much easier to learn how to stand up for ourselves, and to learn how to say “no!” when something isn’t right — it becomes easier to learn to define and set and defend healthy boundaries!

These past years, since I divorced myself from Bride Ministries, I have been learning to do these things: reflect over the past years, and slowly learn to recognize what has been toxic in my life — and a lot of it has involved going back over old email correspondence, much of which is so painful to re-read! —  and then getting rid of that toxicity… separating myself from what is toxic and not of God.

This has been a process that I’m still working on, as you will probably see in what I share next, and although this process has been very painful and hurtful, the grace of God is with me, helping me to heal.

Paul Schelgel, who I was introduced to in 2013, was another man I had met through the manipulations of Preston Bailey (a point I will discuss in a moment), and from the jump, he (Paul) wanted to interview me.

I wasn’t sure what the right thing was. It just didn’t feel totally right, and I was reluctant to agree to do an interview. And besides, I was beginning to feel very tired and ill (later on, I would find out that I had cancer, and this is why I wasn’t feeling well). If I would have been convinced that it was God’s will for me to do an interview with Paul (as Paul kept saying it was), then I would have put aside my personal feelings — even considering how poorly I felt physically — and done the interview anyway. But although I was considering it, I didn’t have peace about it, so I kept putting Paul off.

Looking back, I can see where this “putting off” only made the situation worse, and I’m sorry for that. I know now I should have just said “No thank you”, but at the time, even though being sick made it very hard for me to do anything at all, much less make plans for an in-person interview, I wasn’t sure what I should do, and I had a hard time telling people “no”, as I’ve already mentioned.

Eventually, Paul went so far as to invite himself over to my apartment to “sleep on my couch” for a couple of days so he could do just that.

On July 1st, 2014, at 1:44 AM, he wrote, in part: “I want to do 2-4 /  2hr sessions on your life and what the people need to know .  I am a great facilitator and we can even fellowship, have dinner and a walk or two as friends….  A day or two to hang out – I hope you have a couch I can sleep on! Please consider this…and know THEY hate me and want to keep us apart.With my video skills we can take what you did w Duval to the world that only watches Utube and more.” 

(I’m not sure who he was talking about when he said “THEY hate me”, but I assumed he was referring to the demons he had referenced earlier in the short email.)

I was not interested in him sleeping at my house at all, whether it was for one night or a few nights!! I was very uncomfortable with that idea, and besides the fact that I had no energy to entertain company for even a day — not even for my own family! —  I also thought it was very inappropriate, especially since he was a married man and I was a single woman, and I told him that I didn’t want that. Even still, since he had been pressuring me for some time to do an interview, I  finally agreed to have a telephone conversation later on that month. Not an interview! But a conversation!

It wasn’t until later, after the telephone conversation, that I realized that he had recorded our talk, and had made parts of the audio of that conversation public in an email that he sent to several other people!

That should have been enough to warn me away from Paul for good! But, as I said before, I had been used to being handled and manipulated throughout my life! And as a result, I had never learned how to properly define boundaries, how to set boundaries, and how to properly defend those boundaries! This is a problem many survivors have, as Loren Grace has also testified to, but as God is bringing more healing to my emotions and mind, I have learned more about healthy boundaries. But when all of this was going down with Paul, I hadn’t learned that yet!

Paul continued to email me, and I reached out to him at least a few times (something I later came to regret), once that I recall in November 2015, to see if he would help me get out some information, which he never did, and that seemed odd, since he had been practically begging to interview me from the beginning. But most of the communication from him was usually when he would CC me in an email that he was sending to other people, but I hardly ever read those group emails, although sometimes I would occasionally open them and see if he had mentioned my name. If I saw that he had mentioned me, I would sometimes respond, but after having gone through my long list of archived emails, I now realize that I missed much of his correspondence, simply because I didn’t usually pay attention to the group emails.

In fact, at one point he had told other people in a chain of emails (that he had CC’ed me in, but I hadn’t realized it…), that he was coming to visit me so he could “interview” me, but I hadn’t seen those emails, and so when I didn’t respond, he became very angry.

This is just an example of how regular email “conversations” with Paul would go many times.

There were emails he sent to me personally, however, most of which I responded to, but many of those emails were usually to pressure me into doing an interview with him, either by telephone or, many times, by presuming to make plans to meet me in person, inviting himself over to “interview and fellowship” with me, and sometimes he would include Preston Bailey in those plans, as well. But I didn’t have peace about doing an interview with him, and so I kept putting him off, and thankfully, his many plans to meet in person with me never panned out.

Around 2015, I had another telephone conversation with Paul, under the pretense of “introducing me” to another man who had had some of the same experiences as I had had, so that I could ask the other man “anything I wanted.” (This is how Paul described to me his intentions for that group telephone call.)

So I agreed to the phone conversation.

However, after the conversation was well underway, Paul suddenly started asking us questions in a way that sounded as if he had suddenly turned the conversation into an interview.

I strongly suspected that Paul was recording the conversation, but I wasn’t sure (Paul later admitted to me that he had recorded that conversation, but he didn’t say anything at the time that the conversation was being had…!). But it was becoming apparent to me that Paul was more interested in recording my private conversations so he could make it public (to underhandedly and unethically “pass it off as a legitimate interview”, in other words!).

I was grieved! I immediately regretted the topics I had already engaged in, including conversation about aliens and pre-life, but, as usual, I didn’t want to “cause problems”, and so rather than simply hanging up the telephone (as I had thought about doing at that time, and as I realize now that I should have done… but I hadn’t yet learned about boundaries!!), I went along with the conversation against my better judgement, hoping that it would turn out okay. I did stop asking the other man questions, however, and I tried to start talking more about preparing for what is coming. Then the other man started talking about his faith, and how faith in God is how people are going to be able to deal with what is coming. At the time, I appreciated that the other man seemed to be trying to put the focus on Jesus Christ and on faith in God, which was and still is the message I want to get out to people! Not DNA or hybrids or Dero or Greys or “pre-existence” or any of those “sensational-type” topics…!

I  got off of that phone call upset that I had been manipulated and duped in such a way to be forced into an interview I never wanted to give in the first place! I felt used and angry and taken advantage of, and I felt angry at myself, too, for having not known what to do in order to stop it from happening. It was a violation of my will, and trying to pretend to “go along with” the conversation-cum-interview didn’t make me feel any less taken advantage of and duped!

But, in spite of my hurt feelings over what had happened, Paul continued to pressure me into giving him an interview, continuing to insist — and would even make plans! — to come visit me and record. And many of those plans were as I have previously mentioned: he would email a list of other people and tell them of his plans to “do a show with me” and to “interview me” and to “visit me” on this date, or “visit me” on the other date… but he wasn’t consulting me at all! He was just making plans and expecting me to fall right in line, becoming very angry several times when I failed to be subservient to whatever he wanted to do.

It was so toxic and so bizarre, and at the time, I didn’t know what to do to make it stop!

About two years later, in June/July of 2017, after I had already publicly divorced myself from Bride Ministries and associates, and after I had decried the false doctrines I had been taught there — and in the middle of writing the book with Loren Grace that exposed those false doctrines for what they were… and in the middle of going through cancer treatments — Paul contacted me again, letting me know he was resurrecting the audio of that private conversation from two years earlier, in 2015.

I still had not yet formally and directly disengaged from him, because I had wanted him to be aware when the book Loren and I had been working on was complete, and I didn’t yet want that door closed… a decision I had made concerning a lot of people I used to be acquainted with, and it’s another decision I now regret!!! But when he informed me that the private conversations he had recorded from two years prior were about to be made public, I was not happy about it! Two years earlier, I had deeply regretted talking about those sensational, occult topics in that conversation, but two years later, I regretted it even more, and it seemed to me and to Loren that the effort to make those old conversations public — two years later! — was an attempt by Satan to discredit the book Loren and I were working on… and we especially believed that once everything began unfolding, as should become clear in a moment.

(And by the way, Paul did go on later, in an email tirade to others that he made sure to share with me via “copy/paste”, and trashed the book Loren Grace and I had completed by then, spreading more lies about me and calling me all sorts of ugly names in the process… yet accusing me of doing that to him… but that was a little later on.)

There were many other reasons why I did not want the conversations made public (the least of which because it was supposed to have been a private conversation), but at first I tried to politely let Paul know I wasn’t comfortable with those conversations being made public. In addition to my regret of having discussed those sensational topics — not to mention discussing those things with Paul, a man I had since come to realize that I should had never spoken with anyway! — and aside from my regret over having talked about certain things in such a way that I no longer believed, I also didn’t like the fact that Paul had done a lot of talking about his personal occult beliefs that I did not believe in, and I didn’t want his false doctrines to be attributed to me!

So, trying to be polite and kind, I told him that I would prefer that I not be in the audio at all, and suggested that the so-called “interview” could just be of the other man, because he had made what I had thought were great points.

Paul continued to insist that I be in the recording, because it would sound botched up with just the other man talking and my name and voice edited out, but I didn’t want to do it.

I finally emailed him with some of my concerns again, trying to “meet him halfway” so to speak, and told him that a.) I wanted some things edited out, and b.) that I wanted to make an introductory statement to clarify some things in the video, because two years had passed since that conversation, and a lot had changed since then! I also wanted all references to Dan Duval, Preston Bailey, and Bride Ministries taken out.

I then asked to have a telephone conversation with him about my concerns, because it would be easier to tell him what I meant about the edits, rather than type it all out.

The ensuing telephone conversation that took place with him that day was horrible. It started off “okay”, with some small-talk about the book Loren Grace and I had just finished writing, and I shared some about her and her testimony. But then, five minutes and forty-one seconds into the conversation, he said that I was saying some “really great stuff”, and he asked “permission” to record the conversation (and I know it was five minutes and forty-one seconds into the conversation, because as I will talk about in a moment, I found out later that he had been recording our conversation from the very beginning before I had even answered his phone call!).

I thought his request was odd, and I would have preferred him to not record, but I felt pressured and I didn’t know how to say “no”. And so I agreed. There wasn’t anything I was planning on saying that I didn’t think I’d regret later, anyway, and I didn’t see where I had much of a choice, at that point. He was planning on making public a previous conversation that he had recorded under false pretenses and without my permission, and I very much needed to talk to him about it. I was desperately sorrowful that I had trusted Preston Bailey’s judgement concerning Paul, and had made the mistake of associating with and engaging Paul in conversation in the first place, and was having to now deal with the fallout of that bad decision, two years later, but I was still hoping against hope to come to a resolution.

At 6 minutes into the recording, he said, “Okay, we’re recording.” However, he was purposefully deceitful, because as I stated earlier, I found out later that he had already been recording! In fact, he then asked me restate what I had said about the book Loren Grace and I had just written, so that it would be recorded. This was to cover up the fact that he had already been recording!

But I continued with the conversation anyway, wanting to get to the point, which was the editing of the conversation from two years prior, so that it wouldn’t lead people away from the Bible!

And so I tried to talk to him and ask him to, at the least, delete specific comments that he had made in that conversation, and I tried to explain why I wanted them deleted… and to also delete specific things I had said in that conversation, and I tried to explain why I wanted them deletedand I tried to tell him that if he would take out references to Duval, Bailey, and BM… and that if I could make an introductory statement that would explain that I had shared viewpoints in that conversation that I no longer believed in and that were being misinterpreted by others, leading them to a wrong conclusion… then I would consider agreeing to the conversation being made public… but even though I made the effort to tell him these things, I could hardly get my words out!

As I was trying to go through my explanations, he kept interjecting comments — speaking the whole time as if I were agreeing with him — while he continued to go into more detail about the Luciferian doctrines he believed in! It was so bizarre!! And I began realizing that, since he was recording that conversation, too, it would sound as if I was agreeing with him, when I did not! And it kept getting worse and worse!

A few days later, on July 10th, 2017, he forwarded me an email that he had sent to several other people, and in this forwarded email, he had attached the audio recording of the phone conversation we had just had a few days earlier….!

After listening to it, I realized that:

  1. He had already been recording my private phone conversation from the very beginning, without my knowledge or consent! This is very clear on the audio!
  2. He shared the video/audio of that phone conversation (video and audio of him, and audio of me) with others, and he did this without my prior knowledge or consent!!! That is a violation!
  3. He had told those people in the email that our phone conversation was a “3-and-a-half hour interview”, and I was flabbergasted! I did not consent to an “interview” with him! That was not the original intent of our phone conversation!

I was furious…! But still hopeful (ridiculously enough, I now know) that maybe he would actually edit the audio from 2015 as I had asked, not only via an email, but also as I had tried to ask during that private, one-on-one conversation I had just had with him, that he had purposefully hijacked!

Later, in August 2017, he told me via email that he was planning on having the transcript of the 2015 conversation published in a so-called “Christian” magazine, which was the first time I had heard of that!! 

Note: Loren and I have written about this before, but I chose to not “name names”. (See:I want This Publicly Known by Carolyn Hamlett“, “Illness, Disaster, and a Warring Spirit“, and “So What is the Name of That Magazine You Mentioned, Anyway…?“) I didn’t want to inadvertently publicize the magazine with my announcement, so it wasn’t the right time to share. But now I have seen the need to set the record straight once and for all about the real truth, and the truth of what I believe and what I will and will not stand for, and to issue a warning to others. 

So I now feel comfortable naming names and giving more details.

Furthermore, he also said that the audio was going to now be a video… which was the first time I had heard of that, too!

And I wasn’t happy about it!

Because of going through cancer treatments, and because I was so sick, I didn’t get a chance to respond to him until the 25th, where I once again told him that I wanted to have a conversation with him about the edits that were supposed to have been done to the 2015 audio.

Paul emailed me the next day, telling me that he had already “deleted all the things” I had requested him to delete, sending me his so-called “transcript” of the conversation, and of an “edited” version of the recording he had made of the 2015 conversation (not the final edited version, as I will talk about in a moment… but an edited version!).

As I read through the transcript, I came to the horrible realization that not only had he lied to me and had not “deleted all the things” I had asked him to delete, but he had completely altered the written transcript to reflect and support his own Luciferian philosophies, and to make it look as if I was in agreement with him!

His sloppy (faulty and lying), so-called “transcript” — and as I found out later, in the final and altered version of the 2015 audio recording of the conversation itself — had been deceitfully “edited”, in that he had twisted things to represent his beliefs, which made it look as though those were my beliefs too, which they are not!

For example, in the transcript, he had added words to my sentences and falsely ascribed those words to me, and he had even inserted full paragraphs at times, falsely ascribing the words to the other person…!

And later, when I was eventually able to listen to Paul’s final version of the edited audio recordingafter he had already made it public, and without my permission, of course! — he had actually added words that I had not said at all! He could have done this is by splicing together bits and pieces of audio, which would usually be a noticeable change to the listener, unless he distorted my voice, which he did at first. BUT… now he’s gone a step further and has since replaced my voice with a robotic voice. Not distorted my voice (which was bad enough, because of the reason I already stated), but replaced my voice with a robotic voice. And using this, he has added the words he wants to the audio, yet has falsely attributed those words to me!

Furthermore, any claims of “protecting my privacy” are absolutely false because he plastered pictures of me and my name, and other identifying information, all throughout the video!

And so I knew that all of that — the so-called “transcript” I read that day, as well as his final audio version I listened to later — would make the listener think I had said one thing, when I did not, or that I had agreed with his viewpoint, when I did not! And he was maliciously and unethically planning on passing off all of that trash as being an “interview” with me, using my name to promote his garbage Luciferian philosophies…. and all of this from a “man” (a godless liar) who claims to be a “Christian”.

I had been trying to reason with him up until then, but when I read the transcript (I hadn’t yet heard his final version of the audio), I finally gave up trying to be nice, and I just pointedly forbad those 2015 conversations to be made public in any way, emailing him my response and CC’ing several others as witnesses — including Anthony Patch, editor of “Entangled Magazine”, the Luciferian, so-called “Christian” magazine (and he never responded at all to the exchange, which was very telling), Loren Grace and another friend, as well as Laura Maxwell, who I thought was a friend at that time — very forcibly telling Paul “NO!” because:

  1. they were old conversations I had had, way back in 2015, without knowing I was being recorded until well after the conversation was already over, and I didn’t want those old, private conversations about personal matters to be made public;
  2. and, because at the time of that 2015 conversation, I was infected with the false doctrines I had been taught from Duval and Bailey, and the infection was very clear! … and as a further consequence of that infection, I was not as discerning in what I spoke with others about as I would be now;
  3. and, because the sloppy (altered… lying) transcript Paul had created from the old 2015 conversations, was not at all accurate, and, as I found out later, neither was the final version of the audio recording accurate, and it would easily lead others to believe that I had agreed with what he was saying in the conversation, when I did not;
  4. and, because of that, I was aware, too, of how detrimental Paul’s deceitful transcript would be on the book Loren Grace and I had worked so hard on, and on the message of warning we were trying to share with others about the very things Paul was trying to infect others with!

During the email exchange, he continued to try to strong-arm me into agreeing to have those faulty transcripts made public — his version of that conversation —  in spite of me not wanting them to be made public; and he continued to falsely accuse me, verbally assault me, gaslight me, and curse me, calling me all sorts of ugly names. And regardless of how the other witnesses feel about that email exchange, the only ones who defended me against Paul’s attack were my other friend and Loren Grace, even though Paul had also included Loren Grace in his name-calling and cursing, too.

Paul had initially said ugly things about Laura, as well, but after she responded with personal anecdotes of such a nature as to sound as if she was trying to mediate between two Christians who were having a squabble over something insignificant, instead of what the issue actually was — which was lies, deceit, manipulation, and most important of all, false doctrine! — Paul then changed his tune and gave Laura a “blessing” for being a “peacemaker”.

Laura Maxwell’s stance hurt me very deeply, but after I realized she had written an article for Anthony Patch’s Luciferian magazine (something I had not known at the time, otherwise I would have separated myself from her then, and not have involved her in the email at all), then her misguided and unbiblical attempt at “peace-making” made more sense… and her siding with the godless and the liars and the abusers made more sense. I was still shocked and hurt, however, and I had one last communication with her to explain to her just that, and I’ve never spoken to her again.

It matters who we associate with, and truth means more to me than “friendship”.

Furthermore, I don’t know how Laura felt about being “blessed” by an ungodly, cursing liar who spreads Luciferian (Satanic) doctrine and who slanders and manipulates and takes advantage of people at every given opportunity — yet who claims to be a Christian — because, aside from that last communication with her, I never spoke to her again (re-read the paragraph above if you want to know why), but I would consider that sort of “blessing” to be more of a curse! After all, what should light have to do with darkness? (Ephesians 5:11) What does righteousness have to do with wickedness? (2 Corinthians 6:14) And I’ve already shared these verses, but here they are again: Psalm 50:16-21, Ephesians 5:11, 2 Corinthians 6:14, Romans 1:32, Romans 16:17, 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 1 Corinthians 5:11, 1 Timothy 5:22, 2 Thessalonians 3:14, Titus 3:10, 2 John 1:10-11.

I’ve learned that I certainly don’t want the ungodly “praising me” or, God forbid, “blessing me!” for being a peacemaker because I tiptoe around their evil works and try to “make peace” between dark and light! And I may have learned that lesson the hard way, but praise God I’ve finally learned!

Loren and I are praying that Laura Maxwell learns this as well, and that she comes to recognize that by her supporting and promoting Luciferian garbage, and by siding with and endorsing  people who are spreading and promoting false doctrines (such as Patch’s “Entangled” magazine, or Kev Baker’s show, or Sean Caron’s program, and many others), she is leading others astray, as well. And we also pray she realizes, as both Loren and I have finally realized, that she needs to completely separate herself from darkness and from workers of darkness … even if it means losing the endorsement and support of the people she once relied upon to help share her testimony.

For those who are considered to be “leaders in the Christian community”, as Laura Maxwell is, and who claim to have a heart for the lost, and for those who have people who trust them, it’s important to be careful in one’s association! It’s important to not lead others astray by associating with, endorsing, vouching for, supporting, and giving assurances of the wrong person… of those who are workers of darkness! And this isn’t a difference of opinion concerning Christian doctrine! This is the difference between Biblical doctrine and Satanic doctrine!

It’s important to not be compromised… to not be lukewarm towards false doctrines and to those who peddle false doctrines. To not be lukewarm towards evil and to not compromise by holding hands and embracing — siding with — evildoers.


Afterwards, Paul was apparently able to refrain himself for a short period of time, and didn’t have the faulty (lying) transcript of the private conversation published in the magazine he was going to publish them in (at least, I don’t think he did, but who knows?). But eventually, like the dishonest and unscrupulous person he is, he subsequently made the altered and faulty (LYING) audio recordings public, anyway, as a video, as I’ve already mentioned.

Both Loren and I do pray that Paul’s eyes are open to the false doctrines he has fallen prey to and to the false doctrines he has enticed others by, and we pray that he repents and makes things right. We do care for his eternal soul. But in the meantime, we also hope that discerning Christians are warned away from him, away from the people who have aligned themselves with him, away from the people who make excuses for him and for his sin, and away from the dangerous and harmful false doctrines that he teaches to others.

Now, remember that Paul Schlegel was someone who Preston Bailey got me into contact with in the first place, vouching for him, if not by word, then certainly by the very fact of his close association with him, leading me to falsely believe Paul was legit; but when I began to tell Bailey of my concerns about Paul’s integrity and his motives, Bailey then “warned” me about Paul’s “strange theology”, even at one point calling him a “nut”, and a “religious nut”, and a “sick pervert” (I have email proof of all of this, by the way, in the same way that I have proof of the email exchanges with Paul Schlegel), but yet Bailey would also say that Paul was a “nice guy” and would continue to indulge his group emails, and he even participated in later interviews with Paul.

Bailey’s two-faced hypocrisy (that I didn’t recognize at the time, of course), coupled with my naivety, and multiplied by the fact that Bailey was handling me and manipulating me throughout that entire time… caused me to not trust my own instincts that were sending off warning bells about Paul Schlegel. And so I got myself “entangled” with a very bad person, indeed!

Now, I can understand why a survivor of abuse and trauma, such as myself, who has been used to being manipulated and handled… who has come to expect that her opinions and feelings don’t matter… who has sadly come to believe that other people have the right to do and say what they want to do and say, but she does not… I can understand why such a person would be duped by someone like Paul Schlegel.

But why would Preston Bailey, a self-proclaimed “pastor of God” encourage Christians to connect with and talk with someone like Paul Schlegel, a man who Preston Bailey later admitted has “strange theology” and who is a “nut” … a man who is a godless liar whose focus is not the gospel of Jesus Christ, but on Satanic doctrines?!

And why would Preston Bailey, a self-proclaimed “Christian clinical psychologist, encourage survivors (or anyone!) to connect with and talk with someone who he knows is a “sick pervert”, knowing full well that survivors are usually more vulnerable to the ungodly machinations of such people?!

And not only that, but why would Preston Bailey himself continue to fellowship with such an individual…?!

Because Preston Bailey is not who he claims to be!

Does this sound familiar to any of you?! If you know anything about my past association with Duval and Preston Bailey, this is the exact same modus operandi Preston Bailey used during my association with Duval: Bailey got Duval in touch with me, encouraged that association, and then when Duval’s true colors started showing and my reputation had been tarnished through my association with Duval and like-minded individuals, Bailey said all the right words to my face that made me think he believed my witness as to the ungodly, satanic doctrines that Duval was supporting and defending and teaching … but when the dust settled, Bailey stood beside Duval, defending him and supporting his lies about me… and he has continued to associate with the godless liars and their evil lies, as history has shown he has always done.

And Loren had the same experience with this type of “about-face” by Bailey, too, as she wrote about several years ago, in the first article we wrote together, “Why We Left Bride Ministries“, and this sort of behavior is called “gaslighting”, and it’s called “playing mind games”, and it’s called “manipulation”, and it can even be called “handling”… and all of these are common traits that narcissistic liars often portray.

But, much to my eventual harm, I had trusted Bailey’s judgement when he introduced me to people such as Dan Duval and Paul Schlegel and others, because I believed Bailey was who he claimed to be.

Praise God He delivered me from that awful deception, and praise God that He is bringing healing to me. But it was a lesson that was hard-learned, and I wish no one would ever have to go through what I have gone through.

This is not something I enjoy talking about. In fact, I haven’t wanted to talk about it at all! But TRUTH MATTERS, and if the mess I became entangled in can help someone else avoid that same mess, then it would have been worth it.

And so I share this painful and embarrassing story with you, offering just this one example of what I mean when I say that I was being manipulated and handled by Preston Bailey, as well as manipulated and misused by people who he put me into contact with and who he vouched for, if not by word, then certainly by the very fact of his close association with such people. And it is also an example of what I mean when I say that I too easily and too quickly trusted the very people I should not have trusted.

But by the grace of God, I’ll never do it again!

I wish I could go back and change what happened! I wish I could go back and never have anything to do with Preston Bailey and with all the people I subsequently became acquainted with through my association with Bailey! But I can’t go back. All I can do now (and Loren, too) is warn people of the dangers of associating with godless liars.

If there is ever any question in anyone’s mind as to why I (and Loren, too) am now extremely careful about who I friend and who I align myself with, this is just one example. I’m not “paranoid”, as some have accused me of. Nor are my “standards too high”, as one ex-friend rebuked me for (what does that even mean, anyway…?!). But I simply have learned from my mistakes of the past! I’ve learned the hard way that it does matter who I associate with, and that it does matter how my testimony and information gets out and through whom it gets out!!

See: Psalm 50:16-21, Ephesians 5:11, 2 Corinthians 6:14, Romans 1:32, Romans 16:17, 2 Thessalonians 3:6, 1 Corinthians 5:11, 1 Timothy 5:22, 2 Thessalonians 3:14, Titus 3:10, 2 John 1:10-11, etc.

I wish I would have known all of this before I got involved with Bailey and Duval, and before I got involved with all of the other people I met through them…. It would have saved me a lot of heartache and trouble! But now that I do know this, I hope you (those who are reading this) will take my example and learn from my mistakes: TRUTH MATTERS, AND IT MATTERS WHO WE ASSOCIATE WITH!

These are details, plus much much more, that need to come out, because not only are these the sort of men who are liars and charlatans (and the sort of men who all publicly support and defend one another, in spite of the backbiting and gossiping they do behind one another’s back…), but they also claim to be “Christian ministers” of one sort or another, yet are actively involved in spreading occult doctrine around, leading many astray, including unsuspecting and trustful survivors, such as how it was with Loren and I!

This is something Christians should take very seriously!

And so, I do have every intention on making public the full story of my involvement with all of those men (and some of the women, too), because TRUTH MATTERS… but until I am able to tackle that huge task, if you want to know what what I have to say and what I think TODAY, then stop relying on other people to tell you! Read the articles on this website, on my website, and the information in the book I wrote with Loren Grace.

These are your primary sources! And these are the sources that haven’t been contaminated with someone else’s point of view, nor contaminated with the false doctrines we had once been deceived by.

Primary Source: “A direct source of information or research.”

Contaminated: “Made impure or unclean by contact or mixture; made impure by the addition of a harmful or undesirable substance; rendered unwholesome; polluted, dirtied, poisoned, infected, stained, corrupted, tainted, sullied, defiled, soiled, adulterated.”

And until I am able to finish writing the full story, I hope that smaller statements like the one here will help you understand more of why I have been telling people: “DON’T PAY ATTENTION TO MY PREVIOUS INTERVIEWS!”

How the “Time Travel Information” from Duval’s Clients Came About

Having gone through Duval’s type of fake “counseling” for nearly two years, I (Loren Grace) know about Satan’s so-called “mission” (plot… scheme) to go back in time and try to stop the crucifixion, because it was something that briefly came up in my sessions with Duval, too.

As usual, Duval was looking for “confirmation” as to what he had told me that some of his other clients had told him about time travel in relation to the crucifixion in their sessions with him.

(It wasn’t uncommon for Duval to divulge details to his clients of the private sessions with his other clients … and just because he isn’t a qualified and licensed mental health professional, it doesn’t mean this wasn’t a serious breach of confidentiality.)

So Duval asked me if I knew anything about the “plot to stop the crucifixion,” too.

I had never heard of such a thing, but following his instructions, I went into an altered state of consciousness (which is a type of hypnosis) and, with Duval’s so-called “help” (in other words, by listening to and following Duval’s suggestions and commands), as well as with the “help” of a so-called “personal angel” (a demon that was disguised as an angel) and with the help of a so-called “Jesus” (again… a demon that had disguised itself) — deceptive, demonic beings that Duval consistently encouraged me to interact with, both in “counseling” with him (Duval) and during my personal time — I found a part of me who supposedly had “memories” of being involved in that same mission to stop the crucifixion of Jesus.

Looking back, I can’t believe how blindly I trusted Duval…! It’s embarrassing! I can’t believe I didn’t think to compare my personal experiences … or what a “part of me” had said they had supposedly experienced … and compare what Duval told me … with what the Word of God actually says!

I know the truth now, of course, but it’s still so horribly embarrassing to think about, much less share with others. Yet I still share, with the hope of helping others who have been duped by him or by similarly-minded occult individuals who prey upon those who have been broken and wounded.

Anyway … judging by his reaction, Duval seemed pleased, giving him the “confirmation” that he was looking for. And knowing how that whole supposed “confirmation” process worked in “counseling” with him, it seems likely that at least some of his other clients gave him the same type of “confirmation,” too. Subsequently, the other woman, Eleyna, who was on the “time travel” program, went on to talk about her “experiences,” and Duval convinced Carolyn to share what she “knew” about time travel, too, to try to bring legitimacy to the entire demonic affair.

Carolyn and I both still pray for Eleyna, too, that she will come to see the deception she has fallen for, and repent. ❤

But to reiterate what Carolyn has already made clear, Carolyn greatly regrets having done those programs with Duval, and she also deeply regrets allowing Duval to pressure her into talking about “time travel,” as well as many other “sensational topics” that he pressured her to talk about… and some of the details on certain topics (such as the information on reptilians…) came about because Duval had pushed her into channeling that information from a so-called “angel” — the same as Duval had done with me!!!

Even at that time, when I was going through “counseling” with Duval, I had difficulty believing that there was actually a plan to stop the crucifixion, and I had an even harder time believing that I had a so-called “part of me” that was involved in it. But I chose to believe it at that time because Duval believed it was true, and he was constantly “encouraging” me to believe — without question — every single outlandish thing that came up in my sessions with him.

So, it was no different that time.

Looking back, it was more like “insisting and pressuring,” really, and not so much “encouraging,” although encouraging is a correct word, too. But the survivors Duval “counseled” didn’t give him the nickname “Bulldozer Dan” (also “Steamroller Dan”) for nothing (a nickname he laughed about and expressed pride about, by the way, in case I haven’t mentioned that before…). He bulldozed and steamrolled his way right over his clients, pressuring, and dare I say, bullying us into saying what he wanted us to say, doing what he wanted us to do, believing what he wanted us to believe, and into accepting every thing that came up in session as being absolutely true.

When I would express doubts about what the parts of me supposedly “remembered,” he would often accuse me of being “in denial,” and would say, “Now Loren…,” in a soft, patronizing tone, much as one would speak to a recalcitrant child …

(and I’m not a child, nor is it recalcitrant to use critical thinking skills to determine for oneself the truth of one’s past, so it was patronizing and demeaning to be treated in such a manner … but that was just part of the control and manipulation that was ever present during sessions with Duval)

… and then he would either proceed to remind me “God doesn’t heal you from something that never happened”…

(in essence, this meant: “well, this event that a part of you remembers must be true, because Jesus healed you of it, remember…? and he wouldn’t heal you of something if it weren’t true…,” and boy-oh-boy, considering that the “Jesus” Duval had me interacting with was an antiChrist — a false Christ! — what a stinkin’, manipulative, spiritually abusive statement that was!)

… or he would say, “Well, let’s ask Joshua” …

(the name of the so-called “angel” that Duval encouraged me to interact with and channel messages from for Duval’s benefit)

… or “Let’s ask Jesus” …

(the false Christ that had been invited in through my “counseling” with Duval and who I was expected to channel messages from for Duval’s benefit)

… and then “Jesus” or the “angel” would give “confirmation” about the outlandish thing I was supposed to believe without question, and how could I have said “no, you’re wrong” to Jesus…?!

Even the times I tried to continue to resist, even quitting counseling several times because of the anguish it was causing me, I would be harassed by Joshua, the so-called “angel,” and I would reluctantly go back to counseling, trying to convince myself that it would get better soon… trying to convince myself that it’s what God wanted for me, and believing that to say “no” to Duval was the same as saying “no” to healing and the same as saying “no” to God.

(If this sounds like a cult mindset, that’s because it was.)

So I chose to trust Duval, much to my eventual harm.

Once I finally left his toxic “counseling” completely, however, I absolutely knew that the whole “time travel plot” was a demonic deception. Duval had used me to not only build his own career (that he fallaciously calls a “ministry”) and to bring other clients to him, but to also give “confirmation” to all the unbiblical delusions and lies that Duval believes in and spreads like a deadly virus — delusions and lies, in fact, that he encourages

insists and pressures

other people to “confirm” through their toxic, so-called “counseling sessions” with him, and then encourages those clients to publicly share with others on his podcasts and on other people’s podcasts, such as he did with Carolyn as well as with others, causing others to blindly believe and follow after the lies and delusions!

This also serves as a trap for the survivor who publicly shares such deception and nonsense, effectively keeping them silent even after they realize the truth, for fear that everything they had ever known or once shared about their life will be lumped in together with the lies and delusions that Duval had encouraged them to believe.

Now, some of his clients have had a positive outlook about their “counseling” sessions with Duval, and some of them have joined in the public praise of Duval. But it wasn’t positive for me, it wasn’t positive for Carolyn, and it wasn’t positive for a lot of people. But Carolyn and I, as well as three other people who received “counseling” either from Duval or from another of Duval’s “life-coaches” that work under his BM coaching services, have been the only ones who have dared to publicly speak the truth.

To remind you, the reader: I write all of this from personal experiences as a former client of Duval’s, and to understand a little more about what “counseling sessions” with Duval were like, you can read the book I authored with Carolyn, specifically the chapter titled “Supernatural Realms — The Origin,” and more details are peppered throughout various articles on this website and on my personal website.

But to quickly recap: Duval’s “counseling sessions” were nothing more than a satanic programming session that left me open to his influence and suggestions and commands, and also open to the influence and suggestions and commands of the demonic.

Such sessions were the same to one degree or another for his other long-term clients that I used to be acquainted with, and I have no reason to believe it was/is any different for Duval’s other clients who I was/am not acquainted with. Although some of them have obviously not recognized it for what it was/is (or have just chosen to ignore it), some of them have because they have reached out to Carolyn and I via email and told us about it; however, none of them have made the truth public as of yet, aside from the three I mentioned earlier, in part because they fell for the trap that I mentioned above and are afraid to come out with the truth.

There are other reasons why they don’t come out with the truth, of course, one being Duval’s threats of legal action if they talk. Which is very odd, since it’s apparent that Duval loves for his clients to freely and publicly share what happens in their so-called “counseling” sessions … if it makes him look “good,” by whatever warped definition of “good” is being used….


Regardless, I understand why the ones who have recently contacted us are afraid of going public with the truth, but at the least, I hope the information on our websites helps facilitate a healing process that will bring them understanding, and with understanding, peace. ❤

So, I know that was a lot of background information, but it’s important for people to understand just exactly how this “time-travel revelation” came about for at least some of Duval’s clients, because there is no doubt in my mind that the assertion that Satan was sending people back in time to try to prevent the crucifixion of Jesus was a lie that was being whispered into the ears of Duval’s dissociative clients who, at the time of their “counseling sessions” with Duval, were in an altered state of mind and were open not only to Duval’s suggestions and commands, but were also open to the direct influence of the demonic. And all of this was orchestrated by Dan Duval who has opened himself up to be used by the demonic in such a manner.

The other of Duval’s clients who were privy to this outlandish deception may still believe the lie and they may not want to describe things as I have, but that’s what it was.

Bottom line: there was not, nor is there, nor will there ever be, such a mission to stop the crucifixion.

But we’ll talk about that lastly, because we’d like to briefly discuss “time travel” first.

Is Time Travel Real?

Well, we (Carolyn and Loren) believe time travel is “real,” in a certain manner of speaking, as we will describe in a moment, but it isn’t truth.

Neither is it anything that can be actually and scientifically proven one way or the other, and hearsay and personal experiences (even our own!) and unsubstantiated reports are not verifiable proof.

The more important point, however, is that our past experiences with “time travel” has been something that was solely brought about through the demonic, and they are liars and deceivers. So that’s something that should not be discounted, because even if time travel is real, and even if there were verifiable evidence to prove such, it is not an activity that is authored by God, which is one main reason why we say it is not truth. Therefore, it is an activity that we, as Christians, should not glorify in any fashion.

The reason we say that we believe time travel is “‘real,’ in a certain manner of speaking,” is because, in our past experiences, when traveling through other dimensions (and just to make sure we’re clear: this is something that is only possible through the demonic, and it is not of God at all), time seems to run differently there. We aren’t sure how to describe it. We aren’t scientists, so we don’t really know the right words to use, and it’s not something either one of us want to waste our time studying (and we suggest you don’t waste your time studying it, either, because it’s an activity that is steeped in the occult), but if you enter into another dimension and spend an hour there, or several hours, or days, or weeks… when you enter back into this earthly dimension (a place where, by the way, the Father placed us and expects us to live and stay until it’s our time to die, or until Christ returns!), hardly any time has passed at all. Several hours at the most.

This is our experience, anyway.

Maybe the best way to describe what we mean would be going to the grocery store. If you leave to go to the store at 4:30 PM, and return home at 5:45 PM, you haven’t traveled one hour and fifteen minutes into the future. It’s just time that has passed.

In the same manner, if you were to travel into another dimension, you would be gone from this dimension for however long, and when you returned, it wouldn’t be the same time as when you had left, although the time spent in the other dimension would not necessarily correspond with the amount of time that passed on earth.

It would be like if your house was in one dimension, and the grocery store was in another. If you left your house at 4:30 PM and traveled to the grocery store and shopped around for an hour and fifteen minutes, when you returned home, the clock would show (for example) 4:40 PM, instead of 5:45 PM.

And that isn’t time travel as it’s commonly thought of, or time travel as depicted by Hollywood, which is why we say “it’s possible, in a sense.”

So, if we are pressed to answer the question of “Is time travel possible?”– regardless of what we have said about the subject before, we would NOW have to say, “Not in the manner in which is most commonly speculated about, no.”

Now, if one can enter into a different dimension — into a different space-time, maybe it could be called — spend however much time there, and then come back at an earthly point a bit further into the future (because time has continued to pass on earth while they were gone), then, theoretically, one should be able to enter into this earthly dimension at a point that is much further back, in the past. And the converse could theoretically be true as well: one should also be able to enter into this earthly dimension at a point that is much, much further ahead, in a future that has not yet occurred.

But we do not believe it to be possible to travel in such a way that would disrupt the actual timeline, chiefly because God is in control of the timeline. Not the demonic. This is a principle spoken of throughout Scripture, beginning with creation. In fact, God created time, so of course He is in control of it! And Jesus Himself told us, as recorded in Acts 1:7, that the Heavenly Father has authority over time.

So the timeline is not under the authority of Satan (or mankind, for that matter), and if Christians believe it is, they have fallen for a deception from hell.

But even if there were proof that such a Hollywood-style time-travel were possible, it’s not something that is of God, and as such it is not truth. In fact, it is one of many deceptions from Satan that is leading some astray.

You see, Satan isn’t going to waste time on such a useless endeavor to stop the crucifixion of Christ, as we will talk about in a moment. He will, however, try to make people think he is trying to achieve this.


Because, as with all such similar deceptions, people start focusing on the idea of time travel and all the possibilities, and then what happens? They forget that it’s satanic to begin with — or maybe they just don’t care that it’s satanic, and decide to study it anyway — and they lose sight of the Heavenly Father and His plan and His Word and His will, and they start chasing after the demonic and their plans and what they say and their will!

That’s one of the biggest problems we see with all the supposition and speculation over sensational topics such as time travel, “-stain” vs. “-stein,” reptilians, the shape of the earth, the countless “end-time prophecies” that are constantly being predicted by all manner of esoteric-minded Christians, etc.: regardless of whether such things are real or not, people start to focus on those things, and all the fascinating and even frightening possibilities such topics hold, and they lose focus on what really matters, which is a relationship with the Heavenly Father! The gospel of Jesus Christ! Being led and transformed by the Spirit of God! The truth of His Word! Living a godly lifestyle! And other Biblical concepts!

Instead of preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ, they want to preach “the gospel of flat earth”, even claiming that some have “come to salvation” because of the message of flat earth. Not because of the message of Jesus Christ…! But because of the message of flat earth. This isn’t at all unlike Ms. Courtney, with her absurd assertion that the warnings of “three days and nights of gross darkness” will bring people to salvation. And pardon us for saying so, but we question the actuality of such a “salvation” that hinges not upon the work of Jesus Christ, but on the message of flat earth … or on the message of a spherical earth, for that matter… or on the message of three days of darkness … or upon anything else other than Jesus Christ!

Instead of reading and studying and preaching the Word of God, they read and study and preach occult doctrines.

Instead of learning more about Jesus Christ and preaching “Christ crucified,” they’d rather learn about reptilians and preach about them.

Instead of going to what the Bible says about prophecy and end-times and preach what the Word of God says, they listen to and follow after false prophets and their many false visions and false dreams, and preach those things.

Instead of being led by the Spirit of God, they’d rather be led by their own spirit … or another spirit that makes them “feel good” … or to be led by another person who tells them what to do and say and think.

Oh, every once in a while such “preachers and ministers” offer a Bible study on “holiness” or on “grace” or on “salvation.” But the occult doctrines that they actually teach and believe and practice and promote the rest of the time tells the story of who they really are.

It’s absurd for self-proclaimed Christians to act in such a manner, but people like Duval and many, many other false ministers, as well as the people who are being manipulated, controlled, and brainwashed by such people, are being used by the demonic to take people’s eyes off of the Father, and to instead keep their eyes focused on the demonic.

We were both taken in and used by Duval in such a manner (and by the demonic who is influencing him), and we have both since publicly repented, and have done our best since then to point people to the simple truth that is found in the Word of God, and away from the complications of the demonic.

We hope and pray that more of Duval’s victims would follow suit, and to those people we say: “We love and care about your eternal soul, and are praying for your deliverance and salvation.”

And in spite of the painful truth of our testimonies that we have shared (and will continue to share), we say the same to Duval, too.

Is Satan Sending People Back in Time To Stop the Crucifixion of Christ?

If the above information doesn’t convince you that this is an impossible feat, here are some other points to consider:

Point One

We’ve already talked about this, but we want to make it clear again: the entire story of Satan trying to stop the crucifixion is based upon supposition and theory and hearsay, and there’s no actual proof at all of it being true.

In the case of at least some of Duval’s clients we are aware of who have talked about this supposed satanic plot, this is supposition that has come about through the ungodly “deliverance counseling” that has been briefly described in this article, and the only “proof” that there is, is that different people have told Duval the same thing at different times.

According to what Duval has said (and please remember that we are both speaking as his former so-called “clients”, although as Carolyn has explained before, that is not how her relationship with Duval started off as being…!), this is “proof” that this satanic agenda is in play, and is actually what he has claimed as “proof” with many of his unbiblical and Luciferian (Satanic) theories and theologies.

But… considering that the “information” came in the middle of his programming (“counseling”) sessions with his clients, then the only thing that is actually proven is that, a) Duval placed that suggestion into the minds of his clients, and they believed him for whatever reason, whether it was them who consciously believed him, or another of their parts who said it was true, etc.; and b) demons were whispering the same deceptions to some of Duval’s clients, some of who then went on to share those extravagant and titillating lies for the sake of people’s itching ears.

It’s also highly possible that one or more of Duval’s clients “heard” from the demonic on their own time, outside of sessions with Duval — or studied up on time travel for themselves and came up with this idea out of their own imagination — and then went to Duval with the false claim that Satan is trying to go back in time to prevent the crucifixion of Jesus. And from there, it snowballed into Duval getting so-called “confirmation” from his other clients.

One particular client was known to do just such — study up on various occult topics and subsequently claim he had “special insider knowledge” of this, that, or the other … and study the testimonies (true or false) of various other people, and then claim those things as part of his so-called “testimony” — so it wouldn’t surprise us if this was actually how it began.

But we don’t know that for certain. All we know is what happened to us, what the other clients stated explicitly for themselves, and what Duval told us about what his other clients had told him.

Point Two

Read the Bible. It is plainly written in both Luke 22 and John 13 that Satan entered into Judas, who then betrayed Jesus for thirty pieces of silver, ultimately leading to the arrest of Jesus and His subsequent crucifixion.

Why would Satan enter into Judas to cause him to betray Jesus if Satan was trying to stop the crucifixion?

It’s clear that Satan wasn’t trying to stop the crucifixion; he was trying to cause it to happen.

But, as we will talk about again in a moment, Satan had no control over the death of Jesus nor of the method of His death, regardless of his plans and plots.

Point Three

People may say that Herod’s plot to kill the newborn Jesus is proof that Satan tried to stop God’s plan, possibly giving credence to the thought that, years later (whether 33 years or over 2033-ish years later…), Satan tried to stop the crucifixion. 

This is adding more to Scripture than is actually presented to us, particularly when we take other Scripture that tells us Satan tried to tempt Christ in the wilderness. If he were trying to kill Jesus, that would have been a perfect opportunity, would it have not?

But Satan couldn’t kill Jesus any more than he could stop His death on the cross. It wasn’t (and isn’t) in his control.

In both cases, we believe it’s better to argue (if such an argument is necessary) that Satan was just doing what Satan does: to try to “steal, kill and destroy,” and to try to gain a foothold by any means necessary.

Point Four

People have said that Satan has since realized what a horrible mistake he made …

(which suggests that Satan could have made the “right” choice and stopped the crucifixion … which further suggests that such a Divine event was under the control of Satan the entire time … which, pardon us again, but is about as unbiblical of a statement as we’ve ever heard!)

… and that he has been scrambling ever since to “correct his error.”

We’ll more thoroughly address the “mistake” part in a moment, but first, where’s Scriptural evidence for this? This is a claim that simply cannot be proven, and is, at the least, coming from the wild imagination of some people (or from the minds of people who were exploited and programmed by someone else — such as a “deliverance minister” — to believe such a thing).

But second, if it is true …

(it’s not, but for the sake of argument, let’s pretend for a moment that it is)

… then the possibility exists that the demonic have been or will be successful … which would make the Word of God a lie … which would make God a liar … which would make God to not be God … which would mean that nothing would exist (how can a creation exist without a Creator?) … which would mean that even Satan himself would cease to exist!

Do people not think that, if it is possible that Satan has had a “brilliant revelation” and has realized what an awful mistake he had made in “allowing” Jesus Christ to be killed on the cross …


… then it’s also highly possible that he has had a “brilliant revelation” that has caused him to realize that were he to be successful in this time-traveling mission, that he would cease to exist?

Why would Satan exhibit “brilliant understanding” with one thing, but not with the other? Why would he be unable to draw out such “logic” to its inevitable end? Why would he try to stop the crucifixion if it meant he would cease to exist?

This entire thing just isn’t logical by anyone’s standards (not to mention, unsupported by Scripture, which is the most important point), and it brings up more questions than it answers.

Point Five

Some people may believe that it has or will occur (or could possibly occur), and if so, it would cause a rift to occur in our timeline, leaving one timeline where Jesus did die, and creating another timeline where He did not … and, again, this would make the Word of God to be a lie, making God a liar, making God to not be God, causing everything to have never existed in the first place … and it doesn’t make sense.

It might make for an interesting sci-fi movie …

(a lot of the stuff we’ve heard from Duval and his clients would make for an interesting sci-fi movie plot, and we say this not to poke fun, but because it’s our personal experience with him, as we’ve written about many times before)

… but it isn’t true.

All these can be compelling arguments, but the more important points we’d like to make are these:

Point Six

The demonic can quote Scripture, sure. But there is no Scripture or Biblical principle to indicate that the demonic have an understanding of — revelation of — Scripture! In fact, the Bible teaches us just the opposite: the understanding of the truth of Scripture comes only from the Spirit of God, Who leads us into truth. (John 14:17, John 16:13, 1 Corinthians 2:14, etc.)

This is key!


Because the demonic are not led by the Spirit of God, and to try to argue otherwise is a concept that is not supported by Scripture.

Please consider the following:

  • The Bible clearly states that God does not help (rescue from peril) angels, fallen or otherwise (Hebrews 2:16);
    • Note: “angels” in this passage in Hebrews has the basic meaning of “messenger,” and remember that even Paul described a “messenger from Satan” that tormented him (2 Corinthians 12:17), using the same word “messenger” that is present in Hebrews 2; therefore, it’s clear that this meaning of “messenger” can be applied to both God’s holy, elect angels, as well as the fallen, such as Satan.
  • therefore, since the demonic cannot receive help from God, they cannot be saved;
  • and since they cannot be saved, they cannot be called children of God, because…
  • only those who are led by the Spirit of God can be called children of God (Romans 8:14).

So it’s clear that Satan is not led by the Spirit of God. Therefore, even if Satan could go back in time and stop the death of Christ, he wouldn’t, because it’s impossible for him to understand (have revelation of) the meaning of Scripture. He might quote prophecy, but he has no understanding of it, because understanding only comes by the Spirit of God, and Satan is not led by the Spirit of God.

And if it’s impossible for Satan to understand Scripture, then it’s impossible for Satan to really understand his fate, making any “mission” to stop the crucifixion of Christ a moot point. He just isn’t interested in it. It’s not “on his radar,” so to speak.

Although… it’s very obvious that deceiving people through this lie is on his radar, as we’ve already explained.

If this weren’t convincing enough, here’s our last point.

Point Seven

When Christians suggest that Satan has “realized his mistake in allowing the crucifixion to occur,” and is now trying to “go back in time and correct that mistake,” this is a very strong inference that the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was a mistake, and that Christ’s crucifixion was (or possibly could be) under the control of Satan… but the crucifixion of Jesus Christ was not a mistake!

The birth of Jesus Christ was not a mistake that was or is in the control of Satan.

The life of Jesus Christ was not a mistake that was or is in the control of Satan.

The burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ was not a mistake that was or is in the control of Satan.

The ascension of Jesus Christ into Heaven was not a mistake that was or is in the control of Satan.

And neither will the soon coming of Jesus Christ be a mistake that will ever be in the control of Satan.

So why are some Christians being convinced that the death of Jesus Christ was a mistake that was, or is, or possibly could be in the control of Satan…?

And since Satan stopping the death of Christ is not even a possibility, then why worry about it? Why entertain such a ridiculous notion?

Final Thoughts

The birth, life, death, burial, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ was foreordained by God from the beginning of time. (Matthew 26:39, Acts 2:23, 1 Peter 1:20, Revelation 13:8, etc) Satan did not, nor will he ever, have any control over God’s Divine plan. God is in control of the timeline, not the demonic. (Acts 1:7)

Furthermore, Jesus clearly said in Scripture that He laid His life down on His own accord, and that no one takes it from Him. (John 10:18)

Satan couldn’t kill Him, and Satan couldn’t resurrect Him, and Satan couldn’t have stopped it from happening.

To suggest otherwise goes against Scripture, and we hope and pray that the people who have fallen prey to this deception, humble themselves before God and repent of their folly.

It’s something we’ve had to do, and we pray they do, too. 

Carolyn and Loren

⇐ Back to: Setting the Record Straight


If at any point in the future we become aware that any one of the individuals that have been mentioned in this article publicly confesses and repents from their false doctrines, separates themselves from those who are spreading and promoting false doctrines, and begins pointing people to sound Biblical doctrine that is based upon the simple gospel of Jesus Christ, we will amend this article with much joy.

Related Reading

The List of False Ministries/Organizations Explained

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14 thoughts on “Time Travel and the Crucifixion

  1. Dear Carolyn and Loren,

    I’ve read your posts and testimonies and I’m glad that you were both saved out of being controlled by Satan and evil forces. I don’t understand some of it when things like aliens – which I thought were demons but don’t know – have been mentioned.

    What I’m asking, however, is specifically what heresy is this Dan Duval in? I’ve never listened to him so I don’t know what he says. The reason that I’m asking is that I had worshiped and participated at a couple churches that I’ve found out are Word of Faith (WOF) / New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). I’m just appalled at myself now for falling into that trap and just accepting that heretical nonsense just because there are Bible verses thrown in among the false preaching. It’s really, as many are now pointing out, new age type of beliefs repackaged under hyper-charismatic Christianity. The Lord is waking some people up about that one while others persist in their blindness. I just wondered if there was a connection. You mentioned something with the name “Morning Star”. I think that is the name of Rick Joiner’s organization. His teaching is really bad news. It is supposed to be Christian but is not because it is NAR and is heresy. It’s demonic! However, sometimes things have the same name so it might be a different group with a similar name.

    Sorry to write in this method sending back on your email and I don’t even know if you will see it but I didn’t see a place to send a question. I wanted to ask because when you mention these people who had influenced you are phony, heretical Christians I wondered if they are part of that large but ill defined group – WOF and NAR. There are many false, heretical prophets and preachers on TV and in some churches in this group – (Word of Faith / NAR.) Now this convoluted new gospel of man telling God what to do and saying things that have no basis in anything except the imagination such as – Christians have a mandate from God to take over that nations with their 7 mountain mandate (They’re really doing a good job of that one, aren’t they? – sarcasm) is invading churches. It’s everywhere because it’s on TV, and in many of the songs on Christian radio, and the songs that are sung in the churches that sing the newer type of songs. They say they are evangelical, but it is really a me centered gospel. It’s not centered around Christ but around greedy people getting their own needs met. It’s the health, wealth, and prosperity gospel, and there are many wacko beliefs. They pray for healing for people, but then make victims out of the people who are ill because they say that if you don’t get a healing, it is your fault because you didn’t have faith. If anyone tells you that it is your fault because you don’t have faith, they are not of God. They are probably from or influenced by this large group. I just wanted to know if there was a connection and if Dan Duval was part of this.

    Thanks, Diane Ensminger [email redacted by admin]



    1. Hi Diane,

      Aliens are demonic beings, yes.

      Dan Duval teachings are connected with WOF/NAR (although I don’t believe he’s ever admitted it… but I could be wrong), because he believes and teaches some of the same false, demonic doctrines that you wrote about, but Duval’s teachings and practices are even more bizarre than what even WOF/NAR teaches and practices. You could say, perhaps, that WOF/NAR beliefs are foundational to what Duval teaches, but he has gone even further, and delved into deeper witchcraft than even some of the others dare to do. But in reality, it all comes from the same ungodly, charismatic root anyway. We have talked about much of what he teaches in various places throughout this website and on my personal website (lorengrace.com), as well as in our book (https://carolynandloren.com/resources-ecw/book/).

      Thanks for reading. We hope you find the rest of our material helpful as well. 🙂


  2. Thanks Loren and Carolyn for your work. Your book was great. Some people have thought that time travel is being used to change the Bible. God has said His word will not change, but of course the written word of man is changed in most translations of the Bible. If the bible was changed to make it appear the crucifixion never took place it could fool many people. As you are probably aware, it’s called the “Mandela Effect”. Do you have any thoughts on this?. Thanks


    1. We’re glad the information in our book has been helpful. 🙂

      The original words of the Bible have never changed, regardless of the many translations.

      As we alluded to in the article, the Mandela Effect is a distraction.


  3. Thank you Carolyn and Loren for taking the time to back track thro’ painful and difficult times to explain somethings. God bless you for this. Regarding the time time travel ‘rumour’, Jesus said, “The reason the Father loves Me is that I lay down My life in order to take it up again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of My own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from My Father.” John10:17-18 Jesus had full authority over His own life, that nothing could change. I appreciate what you’re doing, the Lord bless you.


  4. You know, the main thing I keep noticing in all this, is that evil makes people/supernatural beings stupid. The enemy of our souls has insisted on stuff that not only puts people off emotionally, or has that ‘atmosphere’, but also can be reviewed as, boy, that’s dumb.
    I am the last person to point this out, but this post’s topic is just too much. Stop the crucifixion? How can anyone look at what Jesus’ purpose was and then say, yeah, guess that can be tinkered with?
    Time to go be so grateful that God’s plans cannot be changed, His purposes immutable, and we are ultimately safe.


    1. The topic certainly is a head-scratcher, but we didn’t write it thinking it is too stupid to address. It’s an idea that some people are being fooled by — some who may be otherwise intelligent, but have just been decieved, as we, as humans, are all prone to be — and we hope this article helps bring some understanding.

      Thanks for reading and for sharing your thoughts. 😊❤


      1. Oh, I So did not mean to say stupid except Satan and his plans, and my own background of making the most ridiculous errors. The topic just shows how mesmerized those working for the enemy can get. My hub capped it by saying, don’t get too dizzy from laughing and crying at once!
        Our best to you and those pursuing freedom and truth in Christ.

        Liked by 1 person

  5. This is for Carolyn Hamlett. I don’t know if you will approve and publish it or not, but I hope you do. I would appreciate it if it was approved and made public. So here goes.

    I felt pretty hurt, shocked and disappointed when I read this article and found my name mentioned in it several times. I personally have not had anything to do with Bride Ministries or any of the types of things spoken of in the context of counselling of Carolyn, so i can’t comment on what is said about them in the article. However, regarding myself, in the context of Carolyn’s interviews on A Minute to Midnite, I feel I should briefly comment here. I did the interviews with Carolyn in good faith, and I trusted what I was being told was the truth as she saw it. I did not try to lead Carolyn in any direction in the interviews, I just asked some questions and recorded the replies she gave. At the time she was happy with how the interviews were presented. Now whether or not Carolyn feels to distance herself from some of what she had shared in them is entirely up to her. But I feel somewhat hurt that someone I considered to be friend is now telling people to run away from me and the A Minute to Midnite Show! The last contact I had with Carolyn a couple of years ago seemed all good. I was worried about her physical health becauseI thought we were still actually friends. I wondered why contact had ceased between us, but I had no inkling till reading this article tonight that Carolyn even had any issues with me or the interviews we had done. Carolyn may not agree with me doctrinally now, and that is fair enough, but to publicly come out attacking me and A Minute To Midnite is disappointing. I wish that rather than the public attack levelled in the article, that Carolyn had come to me privately stating her concerns. I wish Carolyn and Loren well, whether or not we agree on some issues.
    God Bless
    Tony Koretz


    1. Hi Tony,

      I don’t usually make such long responses to comments (or even respond at all), however, I feel that your public comment needs public clarification. But if you’d read the articles on this website, and if you would read the book Loren and I wrote, then you may understand why you have been named in this article. I hope you take the time to consider what we (Loren and I) have written.

      You said : “ I did the interviews with Carolyn in good faith, and I trusted what I was being told was the truth as she saw it.”

      My response : This sounds as if you are trying to suggest that I was lying or possibly lying about my testimony, but I have always said that my testimony has and will always remain the same. But, since you claim to be a friend, you would have been keeping up with what is going on in my life, and you would know that what changed is the false doctrines I learned under Duval. If you have read anything I and Loren Grace have written since 2016, especially our book, then you would know this.

      You said : “ I did not try to lead Carolyn in any direction in the interviews…”

      My response : I never said you did. From what I remember, you were the only one who did not.

      You said : “Now whether or not Carolyn feels to distance herself from some of what she had shared in them is entirely up to her.”

      My response : Yes, it is, and if you have read anything I have written (and Loren Grace, too), then you would know why. In fact, if you simply read my statement in this article, you would know why! It has to do with being infected with false doctrine, and with talking about sensational topics that I deeply regret ever having talked publicly about! And you aren’t the only program I did, and you are not being singled out. I regret all of them.

      You said : “The last contact I had with Carolyn a couple of years ago seemed all good.”

      My response : Yes, first because I had no energy… emotionally, mentally, or physically… to deal with another confrontation, mostly because I was dealing with cancer, as you know, and partly because I begin to “shut down” when trying to deal with confrontation. After dealing with so much confrontation from many people who were publicly and privately attacking me and publicly spreading lies about me after I left BM (and people believing those lies.. and then attacking me over the lies they believe!!), and I absolutely could not deal with another confrontation.

      But also, as I stated in this article , I was hoping you’d read the things I have written on this website and in Loren’s and my book, and if you would have, then you would know all of that! I have done this with a lot of people I realize I should not have… as I already said in this article.

      You said : “But I feel somewhat hurt that someone I considered to be friend is now telling people to run away from me and the A Minute to Midnite Show!”

      My response : First of all, I am saying this about a lot of people I used to be associated with, and Loren Grace and I have both been writing about these things for years now. You aren’t being singled out.

      Second of all, I used to consider you a friend, too.

      You said : “I wondered why contact had ceased between us, but I had no inkling till reading this article tonight that Carolyn even had any issues with me or the interviews we had done.”

      My response : If you have been reading the content of this website, as well as the book I authored with Loren Grace, you’d know why I regret the interviews I have done in the past… and not just the ones with you! This isn’t all about you… this is about me , and about me setting the record straight, because I care for people and where they will be spending eternity…! And because I’m still trying to warn Christians of Luciferian doctrines that they are being fooled by, by exposing how he is working in Christianity today!

      And if you had read the content of our website (or even this article), it should also be clear as to why “contact between us ceased”, as well as why contact between myself and numerous other people I used to be in contact with has ceased!

      In case you have forgotten, after I realized the Luciferian trash that Duval was spreading and promoting and supporting (realizing how I had spread that trash around was another process that came later), I contacted you on November 2, 2016, and said:

      “I am planning to make public with my thoughts, experiences and warnings to people about something that is taking believers like a fast moving storm. It is the whole topic of the courtrooms in heaven and also the Satanic trash of David [Hayes] aka “The Praying Medic” which people are swallowing like candy. I don’t plan to name names, just expose these literal doctrines of demons for what they are. If you and I are on the same page in regards to this … and you want to do a program with me… let me know. Thank you!”

      You then responded a few hours later by saying: “These days I pretty much let Brook organise our guest schedule and liaise with people first. We have a bit of a list and order of guests and shows now. The best thing to do would be for you to message Brook and tell her a bit about what you want to cover and work in with her on timing etc.”

      I did as you suggested and contacted your “liaison” Brook three days later, on November 5, 2016, and when she responded, she at first appeared to understand and be sympathetic, but she ended up turning on me later in that conversation and attacked me. Her rebuke was far too long to copy into this comment, but in her effort to shut me up, she accused me of many untrue and hateful things, such as accusing me of “feeding demons rather than starving them”, and of not giving glory to God, and of focusing on the evil rather than on God. Funny enough, that’s what I’ve been trying to do — focus people on God rather than evil!! — even then, since, as you knew, I was planning on leaving BM (although I hadn’t made that knowledge public at the time all of this was going on with you and Brook), which is why I had asked you to help me get that information out…!!! So why the hostile and completely unnecessary “rebuke” from your “liaison”, and the accusation of doing just the opposite?

      But that day, I responded to her ugly, untrue, and hurtful things that day simply by answering her main question, which seemed to be (this is her quote): “HOW is it that you DID NOT realize this about these pple that DD is tightly knit with???”

      I wrote to Brook:

      “To answer your question, I have been absent from Bride Ministries, The Fire Place Church, DID Support groups for many months. I haven’t listened to Daniel Duval teach or preach for so long I can’t remember when. I did listen to Dr. Bailey at the Fire Place Church awhile back. I have very little contact with Daniel Duval. We might have a phone conversation a couple of times a month and it is usually casual talk about what is going on in our personal lives. I am on the board of BRIDE Ministries and apparently they made decisions behind my back. We used to meet fairly often..once a week or twice a month to discuss and vote even small matters. They have left me out of all the decisions since the church was launched. They must have had meetings without me because a lot of decisions were made without my knowing. It turns out that they have been purposely hiding a lot from me. Anyone who knows me even a little would know that if I knew what was going on in the ranks…I would have done my best to do do [sic] exactly what I have been doing ever since I found out the truth.”

      But Brook never contacted me again .

      Now … what was I to think…? It was clear to me that the answer to my question I asked you, Tony, of “will you help me get this information out?” was a big “NO”.

      Brook’s attack was the last punch in a series of punches that I had been taking from people for days… and it was all part of an ongoing attack from the enemy (Satan) to shut me up and to keep me from exposing his evil works, and the evil works of those who are working for him.

      And in case you think this is just an issue I should have with Brook, let me remind you of what “liaison” means: “one who acts as an agent between parties; intermediary”. You chose Brook to liaison for you , and she unfairly judged me, rebuked me, and shut me down, ignoring my request to do a program to expose the doctrines of demons that many people are falling for.

      But even though I was very hurt by both you and Brook (your “liaison”), I did not cease contact with you right away, as you well know. First and foremost, I wanted you to know about the book Loren Grace and I had written, and I wanted you to read it, and so nearly a year later, after you brushed me off in 2016, I next contacted you in August 2017, and said:

      “In case you didn’t know, I wanted to let you know that Loren Grace’s and my book is completed and available for free download. 🙂
      Remember last November when I made the public announcement that I had left Bride Ministries, Dan Duval and associates? In that public announcement I said that I would be back to specifically clarify what Luciferian/occult/New Age doctrines DD and associates and others are practicing, promoting and teaching. Well, this book is that clarification. 🙂 It took 6 months to write it and over 360 pages to cover the basics, but it is finally done. What has infiltrated Christianity are doctrines that are literally straight from Satan. This is very serious. I wish people knew how serious this is. Their eternal lives are at stake. Many people are walking away from God and don’t even realize it. The reason I left DD, Bride Ministries and associates is because of some very serious things going on. I have been the brunt of a lot terrible abuse from “christians” who believe the lies being spread by DD and associates. I hope and pray those people wake up.

      I totally believe the info in this book will make a difference in the lives of many people. I have to believe that since I know God was in the writing of the book. He wants people to be warned. I have peace in my heart now because I know that I have done what I could to be a watchman on the wall. Time is very short. The strong delusion is happening now.

      My life may be done here. I have been sick for a very long time. Looks like I have cancer. I will know for sure next week and to what stage it is. If it isn’t cancer, then it is something else very serious. Part of me is ready to go and another part of me wants to live in case my words and my sharing what I know might help save even one person. Eternity is a very long time. The sad thing is that some people don’t believe my story because I’m still alive…but I know that my being dead will not all of a sudden make them believe I have been telling the truth all along. People forget the whistle blowers when they are dead. (For now, please keep it to yourself about my health. If it is cancer, then I might let people know, not sure yet if I will make that public. I’ll let you know. Thanks. 🙂 )”

      And then I gave you a link to read our book.

      But it’s clear that either you have not read it, or you have not read it with any understanding whatsoever, because you still continue down the same path.

      You said : “Carolyn may not agree with me doctrinally now”

      My response : What YOU don’t seem to GET, Tony, is that this is NOT an issue concerning Biblical doctrine . This is about the difference between Biblical doctrine , and LUCIFERIAN doctrine , as I have already warned you, and about those people who are supporting those who peddle it! And if you would have read what I and Loren have been writing about for the past four years, including our book , then you would know this!

      You said : “but to publicly come out attacking me and A Minute To Midnite is disappointing.”

      My response : I did not attack you. I went on YOUR public shows in the past, and others too, and talked about things I now regret… and I shared the false doctrines I had learned from Duval… and now I am PUBLICLY setting the record straight. This is not a personal attack, nor is this entire situation about YOU. This is about ME setting the record straight, in a public way , because I made the mistakes and exhibited bad judgement in a public forum , not only on your podcast, but on many others’ too. This is the only responsible thing to do!

      You said : “I wish that rather than the public attack levelled in the article, that Carolyn had come to me privately stating her concerns.”

      My response : Again, I did not attack you at all in this article, and neither have I attacked you in any article.

      But I DID try to privately state my concerns to you in 2016, and you brushed me off. And I then sent you links to our book in 2017, so you could read what I had been trying to tell you in 2016!

      And since you have chosen to comment on this article (funny that this is the only article on this website that you have ever had anything to say about…), here is my personal warning to you: you are supporting, defending, and spreading false doctrine, including focusing on false prophecy that is being spread all over your website and forum… focusing on fear mongering rather than faith that comes from the Word of God … focusing on what the demonic is doing rather than on what we should be doing as Christians according to the Bible… focusing on the sensational and the supernatural… focusing on dreams and visions and so-called spiritual experiences… rather than centering in on what the Bible says about being prepared, encouraging people to line everything up with God’s Word, and living according to His standards.

      I could say a LOT more as a warning, but if you want to know why I say these things to you, then read Loren’s and my book, and take some time to read through the articles on this website.

      This is why I have now separated myself from you, and I have done so publicly because you have placed yourself in the public eye, and I was once in the public eye right along beside you.

      And if you have been reading anything Loren and I write on this blog, and what we’ve written in our book, you’d know that I have done this with everyone who is doing the same.


  6. I have also shared this on Facebook, because I cannot even count the times that I have publicly ostracized by so-called pastors and others, lied about, accused of practicing witchcraft after my salvation and the beginning of my deliverance, and accused often of this by husband’s, and commanded to disassociate myself, as others were also instructed to disassociate from me! It is time for the body of Christ to stand up! However, many are afraid, and transfer their fear to many who have come out of the occult, not understanding that it is by receiving the Gospel of Jesus Christ, repenting of the works of darkness, whether sin or witchcraft ( it is all sin to God!),and continuing in the Word of God, that we are disciples of Jesus Christ. Jesus told the Jews who believed on Him: …if you continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed, And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free” ( John 8:31-32). There are even some that say to me, when they see me, ” Don’t share your testimony!”. But, I was possessed by 300 demons, when Our Heavenly Father had mercy on me, and sent a sister in Christ to cast satan out of me, and lead me to Jesus Christ. I have been instructed, as I believe uou are also, to share my testimony everywhere possible. I do understand how hard this is, only because I have been ostracized and kicked out of many places for speaking the truth! I have no church home, but we are the church! And the Lord has used what you have shared of your testimony, so far, to uncover do many things that I suffered, was also programmed into, and had no recollection of. You are needed! Your story is needed! I am convinced that the religious spirit is the worst. following the antichrist spirit. and leviathan. Before the night of my deliverance, I had 8 of these gatekeepers and the imps that followed. I love you dearly, have learned much from you, and am praying for all of us. God’ s peace and richest blessings. Your Sister Cindy


  7. Hi Carolyn and Loren. I have been following Carolyn since she was on A Minute to Midnite and now follow Loren. I was only saved for less than a year when I first heard Carolyn on the show. I was also deceived at the time.

    I completely understand what you guys mean about this focus on the occult and false prophecies. I have been unsubscribed from AMTM for years now, and now only look to the word of God. My Facebook friend shared one of their newer videos, and apparently they have been having a guest on who is a former Freemason. This man comes on regularly to share what (he says) the Freemasons are doing and he makes predictions. This is something that is completely unbiblical and quite ridiculous to be honest.

    Last I watched there were a lot of authors selling their prophecy books on the show. I commented on one of the videos refuting what the author was saying, using only Bible verses, and my comment was deleted.

    I was recently in a situation where I called out false doctrine and lies from Steven DeNoon (Israeli News Live), and his wife smeared me all over the internet. She posted about me on Facebook using my name, and they also made YouTube videos about me. This was very hurtful, but I stood my ground as God lead me to do. I was praying and praying to get through the backlash I received from some people. I stayed close to God because I wanted to do His will, and if it wasn’t His will, I wanted to know. It was not easy to hear the amount of lies told about me.

    You guys are amazing writers and very strong. I thank you so much for being one of the few willing to say only look to God and His word. I also trusted a lot of people when I was first saved, but once I finally was digging in His word by myself, then I could see the deception from the enemy and also the truth God shows us. I have been quite sad about the whole conspiracy theory movement that focuses on the sensational, and I was also once addicted to the movement. It is not of God.

    When I was crying my eyes out for a week or so about the lies, this is book God took me to right away when I asked Him to please help. I was so weak and broken (I have health problems too). I am so thankful that we have such a mighty God.

    Hold not thy peace, O God of my praise;
    For the mouth of the wicked and the mouth of the deceitful are opened against me: they have spoken against me with a lying tongue.
    They compassed me about also with words of hatred; and fought against me without a cause.
    For my love they are my adversaries: but I give myself unto prayer.
    And they have rewarded me evil for good, and hatred for my love. Psalm 109:1-5


    1. Hi Marie,

      Thank you so much for adding your thoughts. ❤ I'm glad the Father showed you how you had fallen for deception, and rescued you from going down the "rabbit hole" of sensationalism and occultism.

      In reading what you shared, I can relate to the backlash you talk about. I'm sorry you had to go through that, but God is faithful to give us peace and to uphold us during such times. We can find peace in knowing that one day, the truth will be known by all… but that doesn’t mean it’s easy to stand when others are lying about us. But if we are focused on the right thing, the lies and attacks of others don’t bother so much. 🙂

      I was struck by another thought, too, as I read your comment. It’s an irony both Carolyn and I been aware of from the beginning, of course, and it’s an irony I have lived my whole life as someone who has been on the receiving end of abuse from people, who, when I speak out against their abuses, then try to turn around the abuse they’ve heaped on me, as somehow being me heaping abuse on them! It can be shocking, as a survivor, to have to deal with such injustice, but it’s part of what happens when you speak out against such abuses: abusers will abuse, liars will lie, narcissists will continue to blame everyone else for their downfalls, hypocrites will continue to fool others with their deceptive façade and falsely accuse their victims, and those who have been deceived by Luciferian doctrines and who spread and promote and defend such evil, will continue to “cry foul” and/or attack those who point out their error… unless they humble themselves and repent. And so, there’s nothing we can do about it except keep on telling the truth and pray for them to be brought to a point where they will see and hopefully embrace the truth.

      So it isn’t surprising to me that in publicly calling out those people who publicly spread and promote and support Luciferian, Satanic doctrines, that some of those people (who all have a large following, relatively speaking) have said how “hurt” they are by such an “attack.” Case and point, Dan Duval… or Tony Koretz, on these very comments. While I don’t doubt any feelings of pain they may feel, I do hope such people take a moment to reflect upon what we’re actually accusing them of. Regardless of the personal hurt some of them inflicted upon us, we don’t name them to be ugly towards them as a person, although I do understand that it may seem that way to them or to their loyal fan base. And, in the case of Dan Duval, I have had some very painful experiences with him that, by the grace of God, I will continue to mention when it’s appropriate, because it’s a very significant part of my life, it is part of what God has delivered me from, and since Duval publicly puts himself out as someone who “helps” survivors, it’s important for survivors to know what they are getting into.

      Nevertheless, we don’t name them to be hateful, but to point out the false doctrines they are spreading and promoting and supporting. We hope this serves both as a warning to them, as a person, that they will hopefully one day heed (and we do pray every day that they will heed the warnings and repent to the Father!) but also to warn others, who will be led to destruction if they don’t see the danger that such people are leading them into.

      So all that to say this: abusers and liars and narcissists and hypocrites and false teachers will do what they do until God brings it to an end. Just keep speaking the truth and keep your focus on the things of God. I pray the Spirit of God strengthens you and gives you peace. ❤ 🙂


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