Q&A: Luciferianism, Occult Training, and Dispelling Some Misunderstandings

I (Loren) have been asked a few questions about my life and what it was like. Some, too, have called into question my experiences that qualify me to speak on the subjects that I write about. I understand this attitude, since many people know about Carolyn and are used to hearing her voice, but not many people know about me. Maybe this article will help with that. 🙂

Additionally, there seems to be some growing confusion and misunderstanding. I have been referred by some as a “former Satanist,” a “former Luciferian,” as well as a “former Illuminist,” both by some who have emailed us, and by people on other websites.

Since we’ve received questions about Luciferianism from several people, I’m not sure that some understand what this means in practice. So hopefully by explaining a bit about myself, this will more clearly define not only myself, but also what I mean when I refer to “Luciferianism.” More specific questions that we’ve received about Luciferianism will be addressed in separate articles.

About Being a “Former Satanist”

One misconception people have about me is that I’m a former Satanist. But no, I’m not a former Satanist.

I was not raised as a Satanist, so it’s dishonest to allow myself to be referred to as a former Satanist. I grew up in a charismatic household, first raised to be an “Apostolic Pentecostal,” and later a “Christian.” But I have never ascribed my former religious beliefs to be Satanism.

However, the following is true:

1. Although I didn’t realize it as a child, my mother’s second husband was a Satanist. His cover was being a “Pentecostal,” but looking back, it’s clear that he was a Satanist. I don’t know if he was a “card-carrying” Satanist, and I don’t know what, if any, sect of Satanism he personally identified with. Maybe in his mind, he simply “dabbled” in Satanism. I can’t say. But he certainly wasn’t a Christian man, and he had a few noteworthy acquaintances who were Satanists, including some of my programmers. Which leads to the next point….

2. At least one of my programmers was a renown, high-ranking Satanist, and some of the others were also self-proclaimed Satanists who identified with particular groups. I don’t know the religious beliefs everyone gave to themselves, of course, but for some, they practiced some form of Satanism. For instance, one particular woman (a woman I called the “Good Witch”) practiced an odd mixture of Satanism, Voodoo, and Wiccan, plus probably some other things that I don’t even know the name for, and I have no idea what word to use to describe her conglomerate of various religious practices.

But ultimately, at some point the beliefs of those esoteric, occult religions (including the many manifestations of so-called “christian” mysticism) all leads to Luciferianism (the worship and serving of Lucifer/Satan) anyway. So aside from satisfying my own intellectual need to understand and categorize my experiences with her, I don’t suppose it necessarily matters what religious name she would have designated to herself, because ultimately, they all served Satan.

3. As a child, some of the rituals I was forced into were satanic and satanic-type rituals (some of which my former stepfather took me to), mostly for the purposes of programming, but I did not recognize those rituals as being satanic, and I never thought myself to be a Satanist nor did I ever call myself a Satanist. As far as I was concerned, I was “Apostolic Pentecostal” and then “Christian,” and that is how I described myself growing up. Not a Satanist. If the satanic rituals would have happened more regularly in the same way that church services occurred, such as two or three times a week, then perhaps I would have identified more with Satanism than I did with Christianity, and perhaps I could accurately describe myself as a “former Satanist.” I can’t recall how many times I was brought to programming rituals, but they certainly didn’t happen on a weekly basis, and they didn’t happen regularly enough for me to strongly identify with them. Which brings up the next point….

4. Even up to a few years ago, however, there were a few dissociative parts of me who strongly identified as a “Satanist,” because they clearly remembered and were present at such rituals. I hate to put a number to how many parts, but if pressed, I’d say around a dozen or more, but only a couple who were very strong and able to occasionally influence thought and behavior to a certain extent. Because of the comparatively smaller number of Satanist alters I had (the Luciferian alters were much greater in number), these Satanic parts of me would usually present themselves in ways that many people never saw, such as: actively seeking out occult material to read or watch; holding private and arrogant contempt for all things Biblical; privately desiring to curse God, but on the other hand, being convinced that there was no God, and no “good or evil,” but only our personal choices that were neither right nor wrong (this is similar to some Luciferian beliefs, but coming from a “dark” side).

Most of the practicing of witchcraft came from the Luciferian influences, with a few exceptions.

But these parts of me were not the “me” (also known as the “front alter”) who was usually conscious and out surviving through life. And because their influence was not very strong, relatively speaking, those momentary and temporary lapses in behavior, attitude, and thought were puzzling to me, and sometimes frightening. And afterwards, I’d throw myself into “churchianity,” trying to make amends for what I recognized as ungodly thoughts, desires, and behaviors.

I’ve now learned that finding freedom from the influence of Satanic alters does not lie in “trying to do the right thing.” It lies in accepting Jesus Christ and submitting to His authority, and this is the basis of a relationship with my Heavenly Father, Who brings me through a healing process that is based upon my confession, repentance, and submission to Him.

Specifically, this means that I verbally confessed the sin I committed of being against God, confessing even the sin that I had no choice but to commit as a child. Confession of these sins isn’t for my condemnation, but for my healing! Even those Satanic parts of me that I couldn’t necessarily identify with in a personal way — those parts of me that I dissociated from — since they are parts of me, they are me. And as painful as it was, I took ownership of those Satanic parts of me and confessed my sin to the Father. I then verbally repented of that sin, submitted to His will, and renounced my own will.

These things are part of a ongoing healing process that Carolyn and I wrote about in the section of our book titled “Finding Freedom,” so I won’t go into any more detail here.

Briefly Defining Luciferianism

Before I describe my experiences with being a “former Luciferian,” I need to give a clear definition on what I mean when I say “Luciferian.” I had planned on writing even more, but after my husband read what I had written, he suggested that it was too much to put into one blog article, and that it might be better to be put into a separate article. I agreed. 🙂 More explanation may follow in a separate post if necessary, but this is just a brief and, hopefully, simplistic explanation.

For the purposes of writing this article and in doing my best to explain a little more about myself, I make a distinction between Luciferianism and Satanism. But as a believer and a follower of Jesus Christ, I am aware that Satan and Lucifer are the same being. I am also well aware that ultimately, there are only two sides: Satan (Lucifer) and God. Either we serve God, or we serve Satan. And any systems of beliefs or practices that are outside of sound Biblical teaching are not of God, and therefore serve Satan.

But when speaking of man-made religion, there are many different systems of beliefs that people adhere to. And if all the world religions were placed on a single row, with lines rising above each of them, the point where each of these religions converge with their esoteric, occult ideas and values, is what is known as “Luciferianism,” because ultimately, they are serving Lucifer (Satan).

So when I speak of “Luciferianism,” I’m not describing any one particular religious sect that goes by the name “Luciferian,” nor am I speaking of any one particular Luciferian church or groups of churches that may be in operation. But I am speaking to a broader, world-wide, universal belief system whose observants serve Lucifer and who hold to esoteric, mystic belief systems, whether consciously or unconsciously.

Luciferianism is more easily defined and explained as being an over-reaching, esoteric, occult belief system that is best depicted by the tenets of theosophical and gnostic philosophies that are present in world religions. People who follow these theosophical, gnostic, “new-age” Luciferian principles will not necessarily call themselves Luciferian, Theosophists, or even Gnostics. Some may, but in many cases, they would call themselves by whatever religion they identify with, whether it’s Buddhist, Christian, Hindu, Jewish, Muslim, Wiccan, et cetera.

For those who are conscious Luciferians, their beliefs might display in an outright worship and serving of Lucifer/Satan, and on the lower levels, some have been deceived into believing Lucifer and Satan are two separate beings: that Lucifer is the “good guy” and Satan is the “bad guy.” For others, they have been deceived into believing “Lucifer” is more of a symbol of enlightenment, and not necessarily a sentient being.

(The beliefs that some Satanists have follow along the same idea.)

For those who unconsciously hold to Luciferian beliefs, Luciferianism manifests more covertly in new-age, theosophical/gnostic ideas, and not so much as an outright worship of and serving of Lucifer.

But whether these Luciferian values and beliefs are overt or covert, conscious or unconscious, they will eventually lead much of mankind into an outright worship of Satan/Lucifer.

About Being a “Former Luciferian”

While this label is of “former Luciferian” is more accurate than not, it’s hard for me to explain why it is true for a few important reasons.

1. First, because if much of my family and former acquaintances were to hear this description of me, they’d not believe it, and call me a liar. Or delusional. Or an attention-seeker. None of which are true, of course, but even the fear of unnecessary and unfair confrontation has made me want to shy away from trying to explain why I can call myself a “former Luciferian.”

2. It’s also hard to explain why I can call myself a “former Luciferian” because Luciferianism is not so much a religion (although for some, it is) as it is a set of values and beliefs that hold to theosophical, gnostic principles, as I’ve already briefly explained. No, I did not ever have membership at a “First Church of Lucifer,” or whatever other name that might be used. No, I did not grow up consciously worshipping and serving a spiritual being named “Lucifer.”

However, some Christians will practice Luciferianism without admitting it, and many practice it without even knowing it. And for the most part, consciously, this is how it was for me growing up: I didn’t realize that my belief system was not aligned with the Bible, because what I knew of Bible was what I had learned at church from birth. And what I had learned wasn’t sound Biblical doctrine, but was based on emotionalism, rules and doctrines of mankind, and unbiblical fear. Furthermore, this so-called “Christian” environment that I had been saturated in since birth nourished particular motivators that were not of God. These motivators were:

● a focus on following others, rather than following Jesus Christ (man-centered, not God-centered)

 Among other things, this kept me from seeking the truth of the Word of God for myself, and tied up in an unhealthy fear of mankind (the fear of going against what “God’s anointed” said, or what my parents told me to do or say), rather than a Scriptural and healthy fear of God.

● a focus on developing gifts and abilities

Many of my abilities were occult, and since there was no clear differentiation between gifts of God and gifts that were occult, this motivating factor within the charismatic environment I grew up in encouraged those occult abilities.

● a focus on having spiritual experiences, and on seeing and producing different types of spiritual manifestations

I had many spiritual experiences that were not authored by God, but rather than seek to find freedom from those experiences, this motivating factor within the charismatic environment encouraged me to seek out more spiritual experiences. And because spiritual manifestations were equated with “anointing from God,” demonic manifestation that appeared to be of a “light” nature were seen as being of God, and were sought after, as well.

● a fascination with “heavenly places” and going into supernatural realms

I had many experiences in traveling to “heavenly places” and “supernatural realms.” As a child, many of these experiences were precipitated by various types of programming that I was going through, as well as being pulled out of my body for teachings in the astral (this will be explained in a moment). As an adult, these travels continued, but this motivating factor within the charismatic environment encouraged these unscriptural travels, rather than leading me to find freedom from them.

● an ungodly focus on spiritual warfare

⇒ Because of this motivating factor within the charismatic movement, I didn’t know what true, Biblical warfare was supposed to be. So trying to find freedom from the negative effects of witchcraft by using an ungodly, charismatic-style “spiritual warfare,” was actually leading me into even more bondage, as this type of ungodly spiritual warfare is actually a type of witchcraft. And you can’t fight witchcraft with more witchcraft, expecting to find freedom from witchcraft. Not only is that not of God, but it’s not logical, either.

These motivators drove me to a type of spirituality that was not based on sound, Biblical doctrine, and served to fuel the deceptive Luciferian ideals that I and the many different parts of me held. But because those beliefs were of a supposed “lighter, whiter, cleaner” nature than the “dark” parts of me, I didn’t recognize them as being evil or wrong. These were values and beliefs that, if I interpreted Scripture in just the right (wrong) way, they sounded and looked and felt Christian enough. So it “felt right” to me.

This is one huge reason why I was so deceived when I went through the damaging and dangerous “deliverance counseling” with Dan Duval of Bride Ministries: the Luciferian beliefs that he began encouraging within me, pulling out of me, and promoting and teaching to others, “felt right” to me. They were a product of the type of spirituality that I had been motived by and immersed in my entire life, so it seemed normal to me, and I couldn’t understand or see why it was not of God and why it truly did not line up with Scripture that had been properly interpreted within context. And when all the Luciferian alters I had were added into the mix — those parts of me who had been trained and taught blatant, outright Luciferian doctrine in the supernatural — it seemed only natural that I would chase after and fully embrace those things that were fueled by those ungodly motivations within me.

Which leads to the next point….

3. Mostly through rituals and programming, I came into contact with high-ranking demonic beings, and so there were parts of me who served Lucifer and worked alongside the demonic in various ways. It’s what they were trained for. But for myself as the main person who was consciously living every day life, I did not. I served Jesus Christ — at least, who I thought was Jesus Christ — and as I have talked about before, any conscious recollection of what I was involved in supernaturally, I dissociated from them. The same thing was true for programming sessions and rituals: I dissociated from them.

I dissociated to the point that even memories I had of those rituals, sessions, or supernatural involvements, I didn’t see them as actually being memories, but as wicked or frightening thoughts. Or simply as my “wild imagination.” This is one reason why for most of my life, a lot of my childhood and teen years had huge chunks of missing time. In a way, it felt as if I had just barely existed, because, in spite of 20 or so years of being alive, I had few memories, comparatively speaking, that were safe enough to recognize as being memories. This dissociation was, in part, reinforced by my mother. Any time I expressed a thought or expressed a memory that she didn’t believe, that she didn’t remember, or that she was trying to hide or avoid thinking about, she accused me of one of three basic things: either I was lying, I was making things up because I simply had a “vivid imagination,” or I wasn’t remembering correctly and I was “misunderstanding.” If I insisted expressing a thought that she didn’t agree with, I would usually get beaten or physically accosted in some way, either specifically for expressing that thought, or over something else that came up that gave her an excuse to abuse me. So even when I knew the truth, I learned to not believe even myself.

I believe myself now, but this has been an ongoing process in my adult years that has taken sifting through the lies I had been told and that I had believed, piecing together the truth, and learning to trust myself, coming to the realization that just because my mother said I was lying or making things up or not remembering the “right way” (her way, in other words), that it’s not necessarily true. I, as an individual who is a separate being apart from my mother and other people, am entitled to my memories of my life, in the same way that everyone else is. To think otherwise is just absurd in the extreme. Mentally and emotionally abusive, even.

That was probably unnecessary detail… but maybe someone can relate. 🙂

So it’s hard to explain to people that the Luciferian believes and values I had were partially because of dissociation, and the influence of those many parts of me who strongly identified as Luciferian and who served Lucifer.

The difficulty of living with these different parts of me — the Satanist parts, the Luciferian parts, and then the regular, Christian, “just me” who loved God with all my heart and wanted to do what was right — who all held to conflicting values and beliefs, is tough to satisfactorily explain to other people. It might sound as if I’m trying to excuse myself and not take ownership for what I did and for what I believed, but I’m not. I do take ownership for it, and I take ownership for every part of myself. This is all part of the healing process I have gone through, as I have briefly described already, and I have received much healing from my Heavenly Father. But while living with this mental, emotional, and spiritual chaos was difficult, explaining it to others now is just as difficult, but merely in a different way.

4. But the fourth reason why it’s hard to explain my Luciferian background with others is because I did not receive the same type of Luciferian teachings in the physical that Carolyn received, so it’s hard to give a logical, concrete explanation as to why I’m a “former Luciferian.”

For example, as a child, Carolyn learned a lot of Luciferian doctrine in the physical from her mother. There were other physical mentors, yes, but her mother’s teachings were foundational as well.

On the other hand, my mother shared practically nothing with me until I was in my mid-teens, and even then, the things she shared with me about her Luciferian values and beliefs were not something I recognized as being Luciferian because I didn’t know that was actually a “thing.” And these were thoughts and teachings that she shared sparingly over a period of time that spanned many years. So it was very subtle.

In many ways, I wish my mother just would have been open and honest with me about who we were and about her beliefs. But she wasn’t. It’s an odd thing to say, I suppose, but since I felt so disconnected from her as my mother, in some ways, it would have been nice to have a bond over something — anything! —even if it was Luciferian doctrine.

No, this wouldn’t have been a good thing, and I’m aware of that. But the point is, I’d have preferred the naked truth of who she was, rather than the lie that she lived and, by necessity of my own survival, forced me to live.

Having pondered the dynamics of our relationship over the years, I now realize that she didn’t share these things with me in large part because of certain character flaws she had: jealousy and arrogance, to be more specific. She liked to believe herself to be “more enlightened” and smarter than the average person (and by the way, although this is not an attitude that isolated to only Luciferians, this is an attitude that is typical for those who hold to Luciferian values and beliefs). Therefore, if she shared her “special secret knowledge” with others around her, that would mean that they would be just as enlightened and as smart as she. And because she was a jealous person, she couldn’t have that. And since her jealousy was multiplied many times over towards me for reasons I still can’t figure out, she shared very little with me because she didn’t want me to know what she knew.

I don’t know if she was aware of it or not (probably not), but I was being taught Luciferian doctrine in the astral realms, and had been for many years (more on this in a moment), and I knew even more than the little that she shared with me. So now that I’ve been able to finally recognize my many memories as actually being memories rather than dissociate from then, I am able to piece together some of the things she has told me over the years and say, “Ah-ha! Yes, that is Luciferian teachings.”

For instance, some of the Luciferian beliefs she shared with me over the course of several years beginning in my teens were:

● She believed that much of the Bible is simply allegorical, including creation, the Garden of Eden, the fall of mankind in the garden, and even hell itself.

This is something that Luciferians do on a regular basis: they take literal Scripture and allegorize it, and take metaphorical Scripture and give it a literal meaning. They do this in part because they are endlessly searching for that theosophical “hidden” gnosis (knowledge of spiritual mysteries; mystical knowledge).

● Although she didn’t delve too much into the subject, it seemed that she believed Satan was very weak — almost like a cartoon version of a type of dark evil that represented the weakness of lesser individuals. I do think she believed that Satan was real. But just that he was weak and of no consequence. It’s telling, though, that any real talk of Satan would agitate and frighten her.

However, from what she shared with me, it seemed that she believed there to be a difference between Satan and Lucifer, whom she sometimes referred to as the “morning star.” She didn’t talk about this a lot, but she seemed to regard Lucifer as a spiritual being of beauty and power, and she suggested it was possible that Lucifer and God had had a little “misunderstanding” between the two of them, and that at some point, all would be forgiven between the two parties.

(It’s possible that these were just “passing thoughts” that my mother had, and not her true beliefs, but I’m just taking what she said at face value. I never asked her what she meant and I never asked her to clarify her thoughts, because by that time, I had learned well the painful consequences of questioning her.)

● She very much believed in the philosophy that, while there were different paths up a mountain, they were all paths that were on that mountain, and all paths would lead to the top. She would sometimes put it this way: “We are all God’s children.” This is speaking to a Luciferian idea coming from mystic religions that “all paths lead to ‘God.'”

And this belief, coupled with her belief that Lucifer and God would eventually patch things up, leads to the conclusion that it doesn’t matter who people follow, whether it is Lucifer or Creator God, because in the end, all misunderstandings will be cleared up, and everyone will live happily ever after.

On the other hand, some parts of me were taught in the astral realms that there is no evil or good, wrong or right, but these are concepts that live in the mind of those individuals who have a lesser understanding of the universal unity of all things. There are simply choices that we make, and the only “wrong” choice is to make no choice at all. (This is similar to the beliefs the Satanic parts of me held, except with more of a theosophical, “light” bent, I suppose you could say.) Therefore, there is no misunderstanding between Lucifer and God, and the only struggle that exists in this regard is within mankind themselves to decide which “god” they will serve. But if they were even more enlightened, they’d realize that it’s all one path towards a singular, yet all encompassing “divine truth” that is everything and everywhere, embodied in the being known as “Lucifer,” and so the true struggle within ourselves is to understand “divine truth.” And when Christ (the many “Christs” unified together) appears to bring the end of this age and the beginning of the next, all those who chose one side of this spiritual path will live together in one vast universe (“one side of the mountain”), and those who chose the other side of this singular spiritual path will live together in a different vast universe (“the other side of the mountain”), and everyone will live in peace and harmony.

The conclusion of this line of reasoning is that it doesn’t matter who or what people serve, because everything is “one,” anyway, and all paths are but a single path that leads to this “divine one-ness” that is reflected inside each of us.

And of course, this ridiculous Luciferian gibberish is not Biblical at all (nor is it even logical), but it does, in its own way, match up with my mother’s ideas that “we are all God’s children” and it doesn’t matter who we serve or what path we take, because all paths lead to God.

But as other parts of me learned, the same as those who “ascend to higher levels of illumination” learn, it does matter who we serve because Satan is warring against Creator God, and he truly believes he will win in the end. There are no plans for or expectations of a cosmic, last minute reconciliation.

And even if there were hopes of reconciliation (there aren’t, but for the sake of argument…), it’s not going to happen. Salvation is for mankind, not for the angels — fallen or not.

● Related to my mother’s cursory dismissal of Satan, she also privately claimed to have a certain “disbelief” in demons. Not an outright disbelief, but along the same lines as how she felt about Satan: that the only power demons had was the power that weak, paranoid individuals gave them, and if you didn’t think about them, they wouldn’t hurt you or come against you. However, there was a least a part of her who believed in demons, because as much as she tried to brush aside demonic activity as being “in the imagination of the weak and paranoid,” she was scared to death to talk about any real demonic activity that occurred in our life. Therefore, I seriously doubt her claims to not believe in the power of the demonic.

She did, however, believe that she had “angel guides” that helped her and others around her. Of course, this is not a Biblical concept, either, and when people talk about this, the “angelic beings” that are guiding them are actually demonic beings that have disguised themselves as beautiful angels. Since my mother didn’t talk a lot about her “angels,” I don’t know to what extent she was actually guided by such false messengers, but she expressed belief in these guides.

● Several years ago, my mother told me that she believes her salvation came through childbirth, and of course, the way she described this “salvation” was allegorical in nature.

The birth of her third child, and his death that followed several minutes later, was a traumatic event that I attended. She expressed to me in so many words that because she was brought to a place where she allowed God to take her child (in other words, she “submitted to God’s will”), that this was symbolic of her ultimate submission to His will for her entire life, and that this symbolic act of submission equaled her salvation.

She didn’t express that she actually did surrender or submit herself to God, but that the act of surrendering her child was symbolic of surrendering herself. Considering that she believes hell to be allegorical, then it makes sense that her “salvation” would be allegorical as well.

While the grief and pain that a mother goes through during this time of child birth-and-death can never be understood by anyone except those who have gone through this experience, it can also never be equated to salvation. And this “salvation through childbirth” is an occult concept, coming from an interpretation of 1 Timothy 2:15 that has not been properly exegeted. Eternal salvation from our sin and from the results of our sin (death), comes through Jesus Christ alone, not through childbirth.

● She believes in the “big bang” theory in the fact that she believes “God exploded outwards” (the “big bang”), and from Him everything came into existence. How is this Luciferian? Well, first of all, it’s not Scriptural, and it’s applying metaphorical interpretation to the literal creation account as written in Genesis 1. The Bible says that God SPOKE things into existence, not that He exploded with a cosmic bang. Furthermore, this is speaking to the over-reaching Luciferian idea that everything is essentially “god,” (or, “divine truth”) who is “reflecting” in each part of the whole, and each part of the whole is a reflection of “god” (“divine truth”). Different religions will use different terms, but it points to the same Luciferian concept.

This is what parts of me were taught in the astral, and it is a fundamental idea behind emanationism, as well as theosophy and gnosticism (these are Luciferian philosophies).

If you’ve read the book Carolyn and I wrote, you’d understand what this emanationism is, how it’s related to “quantum spirituality,” also known as “fractal spirituality,” why these doctrines of demons are unbiblical to the extreme, and how they are leading people into a perpetual delusion.

Those who know my mother would likely be shocked that she believes these things, and probably would not believe me, because she has rarely, to my knowledge, spoken of these things in front of other Christians or in front of those people with whom she has gone to church. And even my mother would likely call me a liar for saying this about her, or would insist that I have somehow “misunderstood” the things that she’s told me throughout the years.

Regardless, these are her beliefs that she shared with me, and they are clearly Luciferian.

To some, it might seem unbelievable that I didn’t know my stepfather was a Satanist nor my mother a Luciferian, but as a child, my life was simply my life. I had nothing or no one to compare my experiences with, so I didn’t know that my mother and her husband were lying and hiding the truth about themselves from everyone around. And even if I had known they were lying, I would have kept it secret and hidden anyway, because such is the life of abused children: for emotional, mental, and physical survival, we learn to keep silent, because the only thing that matters is hiding the truth so that everyone can be happy with the lie. Not only are we are taught that our voice doesn’t matter, but even worse: we are taught that we don’t even have a voice at all. So we keep silent, convinced, through abuse, that we have no choice.

So I accepted things that happened and accepted the things that I was told, because I had no choice but to accept it. It was very much a matter of survival.

When I was told I was “Apostolic Pentecostal” (and later, simply “Christian”), that is what I believed (and truly believed in my heart), until I grew older and started realizing that these things weren’t actually true. I was raised to have the appearance of a “Christian,” and in this way, you could say it was my “cover.” But unlike Carolyn, who was raised with a conscious awareness of her “cover,” I was not raised this way. I didn’t realize my life had basically been a lie until much, much later.

So while my mother did share a few key things with me as an older child and as an adult, for the most part, I had no teaching in the physical, and was taught Luciferian doctrines in the astral by other teachers, some of whom were the fallen. And of the things my mother told me, I wasn’t aware until a few years ago that they were Luciferian. So I didn’t grow up with a conscious awareness that I was being taught Luciferian doctrine, so it’s difficult to apply this term of “former Luciferian” to myself.

However, even though I did not consciously serve Lucifer/Satan, and even though I was not a member of any organized Luciferian congregation, “former Luciferian” is a term that is an honest description of my former religious and spiritual beliefs. Although, I prefer the term “former charismatic occultist.” It seems more accurate.

About Being a “Former Illuminist”

I have never used the phrase “former Illuminist” to describe myself, but after reflecting on certain aspects about my history and experiences, on one level this is a true statement.

However, when many others hear this phrase or use this phrase, they automatically think or are alluding to the “Illuminati,” and being described as someone who is a “former Illuminati member” feels to me to be a ridiculous statement.

So for this sole reason of being thought of as a “former Illuminati member,” I do not feel comfortable being called a “former Illuminist.”

However, the following things are true about me and my background:

1. I don’t know a lot about my extended family nor about my ancestry, but I do know that my great-grandmother (my mother’s father’s mother) was Luciferian, and she would have likely called herself an “Illuminist” because she considered herself “enlightened.” (“Enlightened” is a term my mother also uses sometimes to describe herself, by the way).

My great-grandmother studied the esoteric teachings of people such as Alice A. Bailey and Edgar Cayce. She didn’t call herself a Luciferian, however. She considered herself to be a “Theosophist.” But the two are synonymous…. And to her, like with so many others, “theosophy” was compatible with her “christianity,” so she had no problem calling herself by either label: a Theosophist as well as a Christian.

So while my great-grandmother might have used the word “Illuminist” to describe herself (and possibly my mother, too, although I’d honestly be surprised if she did), I haven’t and I wouldn’t.

2. I am descended from particular bloodlines that, according to some people, are “Illuminati bloodlines”— assuming, of course, that the little I was told about my genealogy is actually the truth. It could be a lie, for all I know.

But while my maternal grandfather had spoken to me in general terms about the importance of our bloodlines and of keeping them pure (something that I thought at the time were odd things for him to say), I don’t recall him ever using the terms “Illuminist” or “Illuminati.” I also never heard anyone in my family use these words.

There are also connections on both sides of my family to certain key people who were central to the history of the State I reside in, but I never heard the words “Illuminist” or “Illuminati” used to describe them, either.

3. I didn’t have what most people consider to be a “rich, lavish lifestyle of the Illuminati.” For the most part, I grew up in a poor, working-class household. I found out later that in my teen years my mother had a lot more money than she let on, and I, as her child, could have lived a little more comfortably with at least decent clothes and better medical care. But for whatever reasons she had, she usually chose to pretend to be poorer than she actually was, and every so often, I would overhear snippets of conversation between other family members, laughing about how ridiculous it was that my mother played the pauper when it was obvious that she had much more money than she claimed.

I did have family members who were quite wealthy, however. For instance, my maternal grandfather was very rich until the oil business went bust in the 1980’s, and through those oil connections, he had interactions with certain “illustrious” political families. But for much of my early childhood through preadolescence, I grew up away from his influence — was, in fact, disconnected from much of my extended family — and I knew nothing of what is generally considered to be the “luxurious lifestyle of the Illuminati.”

4. I was taught in the astral about “illumination and enlightenment,” but I wasn’t taught these things in the physical. Therefore, I don’t feel comfortable using the term “former Illuminist” to describe myself, especially since people associate “Illuminists” with “Illuminati.” And while there are some who practically fall over themselves trying to classify themselves as a “former Illuminati member,” it doesn’t sit well with me.

So while this label might apply to me on one level, it just feels odd to describe myself in such a way. It doesn’t feel comfortable.

Loren’s Label

Yes, I was taken to Satanic rituals as a child, but no, I was not raised to be a Satanist. Therefore, the label “former Satanist” is incorrect.

Yes, I held to Luciferian beliefs and values, so it’s more correct than not to call myself a “former Luciferian,” but I never called myself a “Luciferian” growing up, and I never held membership with or attended any physical Luciferian church. And while I did work within the spiritual organization, I never belonged to any physical Luciferian organization.

Yes, I have bloodline connections to what people consider to be “Illuminati families,” but I was not raised to be “Illuminati,” I don’t recall ever hearing that term growing up, nor was my way of life characteristic of what most people regard as being an “Illuminati lifestyle.” So I don’t like the label of “former Illuminist.” It makes it sound like I’m a “former Illuminati member,” and it just sounds more grandiose than the reality of my life.

So, if people need to have a label in order to categorize me and place me in a particular box of social understanding, I don’t have an adequate label for them to use.

Sorry ’bout that. 🙂

Here’s the best way I describe myself: I am an individual who grew up thinking she was Christian, but held to a Luciferian, theosophical belief system without recognizing it for what it was, and was programmed and used mostly in the supernatural to infiltrate Christian churches and groups.

I don’t suppose that sounds very glamorous, and it is awfully wordy, so as far as labels go, it’s not very efficient. But there it is.

That said, if people want to call me “former Luciferian,” it would not be an untrue or exaggerated statement, but “former charismatic occultist” would probably be the better term to use, in my opinion.

Email Question

I received a question from an individual with whom I have had some correspondence. Although her question was directed to both Carolyn and I, since the answer goes with what I have been talking about in this entire article, I will answer it here, mostly from my point of view.

She wrote in part:

I was wondering if these infiltrators take courses or have special training to learn about Christian doctrine and beliefs and Christian verbiage. Did you ladies go to a special school to train how to blend in and deceive the congregations?


There are conscious and unconscious infiltrators, and the type of training that people receive varies, depending upon the role they play within Satan’s hierarchy.

For instance, Carolyn was a conscious infiltrator, although she believed she was working for God. Some of her training took place in the supernatural, but some of it was in the physical as well. She has shared quite a bit of detail about this already throughout the years, and she might have more to share later on down the road. But for now, that’s her story to tell, not mine. 🙂

☛ Note: you can read some things about her life’s story on her personal blog: http://beyondthephysical.blogspot.com/.

On the other hand, I was an unconscious infiltrator, due to the type of training I received, and, like Carolyn, some of my training was in the natural and some was in the supernatural.

To hopefully more easily explain it for you, here are the different types of training I received throughout my lifetime:

● Training in the physical at home and at church (also known as “indoctrination” or, “brainwashing”)
● Training in the physical due to mind-control programming
● Training in the physical at a “bible school”
● Training in the supernatural

All these different types of teaching built upon and reinforced one another, but I wouldn’t have necessarily described some of this training in the physical as actually being “training.” For instance, the training that I received through physical means via my natural environment at home and at church were what I would simply call “brainwashing” or “indoctrination.” Not “training.” Although, yes, technically it could be considered training.

I wasn’t physically groomed to physically infiltrate in the way that people might think. Some of the physical “infiltration” came as a natural consequence of me sharing with others the doctrines I had been brainwashed to believe were true. As a child and teenager, I knew this as “witnessing,” and it was basically telling people about our church doctrines in an attempt to “convert” them to being UPC/Apostolic. This witnessing was in expectation to bring in converts into the church (and money to the pastor in the form of “tithes and offerings,” but that’s another topic altogether…). Although this is probably an irreverent way to describe it, it was rather like being a salesman for the church, in a way. I’m not saying that other people who witness to people and invite them to attend their services feel or act the same way. That’s just how it felt to me in that particular circumstance, and being someone who has always been introverted by nature (and perhaps a bit by nurture, as well… or, rather, the lack of nurture), I found this “witnessing” to be impossible to do without having panic attacks.

But even after we left the UPC/Apostolic churches, and when I started going to other churches as an adult, there wasn’t any need for me to physically “infiltrate” charismatic environments. I was already there, born into it, and immersed in the false doctrine along with everyone else.

The form of infiltration I did is probably best described by giving two examples.

In the astral, I had a team of people that I would work with. They weren’t people that I knew in the physical (not that I’m aware of, at any rate…), but I only knew them in the astral. Sometimes I would be called to carry out certain assignments, such as:

● I was sometimes pulled out of my body to participate in traveling in the astral realms with the demonic and with other groups of infiltrators to particular charismatic “base camps” that had been set up for the demonic to operate out of. We were involved in perpetuating the false “manifestations, signs and wonders” that was going on there, and were also in charge of creating a particular spiritual atmosphere. This spiritual atmosphere felt positive, and caused people to think what they were feeling was of God. Therefore, they would open themselves up to the demonic, and the demonic would enter into their spiritual space, hooking them up to the spirit of the antichrist.

You can read my testimony about this beginning here:


● I would work with my team to harass others in the astral realms, specifically pastors. This harassment was often sexual in nature, and to send curses towards them. These things would have negative effects on them, their families, and the churches.

I refused to take part in the “sending curses,” because I was thinking of the wives and the children, who were innocent in what was going on. But I was more than willing to participate in the astral seduction. My mentor didn’t mind that I didn’t participate in the sending of curses, because, basically, we all had our role to play within each assignment. But looking back now, I see my thought process as absolutely hypocritical and self-righteous to the extreme. All of it was awful, and all of it contributed to the negative effects from the demonic that came as a result of the barrage of astral harassment. But because I didn’t actively participate in “sending curses,” in a sense, I thought I was “better than” the others. I didn’t consciously think that way, no, but that was what it basically boiled down to.

What a hypocrite! Looking back, I was even worse than the others, in my opinion, because I couldn’t even be honest about the awful things I was participating in.

But… although I am not excusing my behavior at all, for the purposes of explaining the entire situation in order to describe it to others, it’s important to explain my awareness of my participation. And the only way I can describe my awareness is through the lens of my dissociation.

Because of dissociation, I had no idea that I was actually participating in this. As usual, the limited awareness I had of what was going on was passed off as a weird thought or as a strange dream, rather than the memory that it was. I’ve already gone into detail about this, so I won’t say more.

But now that my Heavenly Father has opened my eyes and shown me the truth of what I was involved in, I recognize that those parts of me that were working on assignment in the astral, was, and is, essentially me. So now I recognize what I was involved in, and it disgusts and shames me! I see now the sin that I was operating out of, and the hypocrisy and self-righteousness that I was hiding behind. So although at the time I didn’t understand or realize what I was involved in, I now take full responsibility for it.

I hate sharing these things. It’s embarrassing (another reason why I don’t like talking much about my background — it’s embarrassing and shameful). But if nothing else is gained from me sharing, then at least it can serve as a warning to those who read: if people are operating out of a spirit of witchcraft, they can and will come against you. They, like me, may not even be cognizant of much of what they are doing, and they may think it’s just a bad dream, or spontaneous, unwanted thoughts, rather than actual memories. But in other cases (as it sometimes was with myself, especially as an adult, even up to a few years ago), they may think they are engaged in “spiritual warfare” against you. For instance, if you have a family member or a friend who is caught up in this “charismatic occultism,” and if you try to warn them, you are likely to find yourself on the receiving end of curses. But they will think of this as a type of “spiritual warfare.”

The best thing to do is to make certain that you are living in submission to the authority of Jesus Christ and in submission to God’s will, and when you pray for your family members or close loved ones who are engaged in this type of occult activity, make sure that it’s the Spirit of God leading you to pray. And it’s very important to pray according to Scripture, and don’t engage yourself in the same type of “christian witchcraft” as they are.

If you, even from a heart that is full of compassion, start praying when God doesn’t want you to, and how God doesn’t want you to pray at that moment, then you are likely to open yourself up to needless attack. But if you pray when and how the Spirit of God leads, and if you are surrendered to the authority of Jesus Christ and are submitted to the will of the Father, then any attacks that do come against you will either not be successful, or will be in accordance with His will. And if they are in accordance with His will, His grace will sustain you and be sufficient for you to bear the attack. (2 Corinthians 12:9)

And I’m not trying to place myself in a position of authority over those true pastors who are of God by telling you what to do, but I would like to respectfully point out to pastors specifically, that churches and Christian organizations are particularly at risk of demonic infiltration, because if Satan and the fallen can get a foothold, they can use those churches, groups, and organizations as a type of “base camps” for their operations. This is part of Satan’s plan! Carolyn and I talked about this in our book.

☛ Link: https://askcarolynandloren.wordpress.com/book/section-three-some-teachings-and-practices/ii-shining-ones/#point-7-testimonies

So I know what I’m talking about. I have been involved in this part of the plan to help the demonic set up these base operations, by infiltrating in the astral and creating an atmosphere out of which they can easily operate.

The demonic, along with human infiltrators in the astral, can and will come at you and your congregation, and if you allow witchcraft to come into your church and stay there, they will gain a foothold and take over. You will be attacked by the enemy anyway (we all are); but in my experiences, many times pastors succumb to these astral attack, suffering unnecessarily, because they are an easy target for the enemy. This can be because they have sin that they have not confessed and repented of for whatever reasons, or because they themselves are practicing witchcraft without recognizing it for what it is, such as with the “charismatic witchcraft” Carolyn and I wrote about in our book. Or maybe because they are just ignorant (innocent and without knowledge) and do not know what sort of evil can come against them. Or maybe they don’t believe they are susceptible, and therefore don’t keep watch. There are probably other reasons, but these are just some things that I can think of at the moment.

With one particular pastor my team and I came against, not only was he vulnerable because of his charismatic witchcraft, but also because of his own sexual sin in the physical. This left him open to being attacked in the astral, and in the end, his sin was publicly exposed for all to see.

Types of Training

So now that it’s (hopefully) more clear about the type of infiltration I did, I’ll now explain about the types of training I received.

And please keep in mind: this is from my point of view and experiences. Other people may have different experiences.

⇒ Training in the Physical in the Form of Indoctrination

I’ve already shared much of how I was indoctrinated (“trained”) at home and at church, but I have a bit more to add.

Much of the teachings and indoctrination that I was receiving at home and at church were essentially reinforcing the occult teachings I was receiving in the supernatural. For instance, the teachings about the Holy Spirit and about salvation that I was receiving in the natural were not based on Scripture that had been soundly and properly interpreted. At best, they could be called “doctrines of men,” and those false doctrines were laying a foundation for other more overtly occult teachings (doctrines of demons) to be built upon.

A common false doctrine that lays the foundation for other overtly occult doctrines to take hold is the false teaching that salvation is the results of “asking Jesus into your heart.” This is leading many people in varying degrees to being influenced and even possessed by demonic spirits, and is leading them astray into what should be obvious occult teachings. But since they are being led by a false “Jesus,” then they don’t recognize these teachings as being occult.

Does this happen all the time and with every single person? I don’t know. Probably not. The reason I succumbed to the influence of this “false Jesus” was not just over a single instance where I “asked Jesus into my heart.” It was a collection of many different reasons why I fell into deception, and it culminated to the point where, in the process of so-called “deliverance counseling,” I purposefully and consciously opened up the spiritual space inside of me to being invaded by a spiritual being that I thought was “Jesus.” This wouldn’t have taken place if I wouldn’t have already been deceived by the false doctrine of “asking Jesus into my heart.”

Please don’t misunderstand me! I’m not trying to say that if you have ever “prayed the sinner’s prayer” and “asked Jesus into your heart” that you are demon possessed, following an anti-christ, and are unsaved and going to hell. I’m not saying this or even trying to suggest it.

But what I am saying is that this doctrine of man that salvation is “asking Jesus into your heart” is a false teaching that has no Biblical backing whatsoever. At the least, this is taking verses such as John 14:23 and giving them a literal meaning (literal in the spiritual sense, I mean… The spiritual is very much literal. It’s just not physical). And with an ever-increasing number of people, this is leading them into being deceived by “New Age,” theosophical, gnostic, Luciferian doctrine, little-by-little, and into being led by, influenced by, and in some cases, possessed by demonic beings who are masquerading as “Jesus.”

Now, as someone who was raised “Apostolic Pentecostal,” the very idea of “asking Jesus into our heart” was anathema. However, we would ask God for the “Holy Ghost,” having been taught that the only way to salvation was to have the Holy Ghost, and the evidence of having this Holy Ghost was to speak in other tongues. Therefore, when we were asking God for the Holy Ghost, we were actually seeking after the sign of tongues, because we believed that you couldn’t have the Holy Ghost unless you spoke in tongues.

Of course, this is not Biblically sound doctrine at all, no matter how many Scriptures they cherry-pick and try to twist into conforming to their own doctrine. But ultimately, we were doing the same thing as what the others were doing with “asking Jesus into their heart,” except we were seeking after whom we assumed was the “Spirit of God,” instead of whom the others assumed was the “incarnate person of God.” And the wrong way these types of Scriptural principles of salvation and of being filled with the Spirit of God were being taught was leading people into being filled with demonic spirits, and not the Spirit of God.

I can’t say for certain that this was the case with everyone that I went to church with. There were likely some people who were truly filled with the Spirit of God and not with demonic spirits. However, if they were, they wouldn’t have stayed in that environment for long and marinated themselves in such false doctrine, because that environment would have been repulsive to true men and women of God.

Perhaps all of that could have been saved for another article, but the point I’m trying to make here is this: many people are being trained to receive, believe, and spread occult doctrine through the brainwashing and indoctrination of the false doctrine that they are receiving within church or church-like environments. This is a very common form of occult training that is often overlooked, and it is preparing them to receive even more overtly occult teachings.

⇒ Training in the Physical in the Form of Mind-Control Programming

When I was young, I received a type of training in the physical through mind-control programming. I won’t go into detail about these “training” sessions, but basically, they were putting me into an altered state of consciousness whereby I was open to the influence of the demonic, and through that influence, the occult abilities I had were magnified. This type of training also made possible the occult training in the supernatural.

But while I won’t go into much detail, there are some important points that I think need to be stressed.

For me, the brainwashing and general “religious programming” at church and at home was reinforcing the professional training and programming that I was receiving in the supernatural, and the converse was true as well. It’s quite common, I’ve heard, for people going through trauma-based mind-control programming, that their “front alters” are encouraged by the programmers to be very religious, and this was true for me. It might seem that the religious aspect is at odds with the occult programming, but it’s actually not!

Here are some reasons why:

● First, in some cases, the religion taught in church environments is not based on Scripture at all, so it’s not as if the “Bible teaching” is doing any lasting, spiritual good to counteract the occult programming. I’m not saying this is always true; but it can be true. It certainly was true for me.

On the other hand, the Spirit of God can move in the hearts of people regardless of the environment that people are saturated in. Otherwise, none of us would be able to come to salvation. 🙂

● Second, from my understanding based on research I have done, and based on my own experiences, it’s not uncommon for the programmers to insert religious programming that will be reinforced by the religious environment that the child is immersed in already. This helps to keep the professional occult programming hidden and active.

A simple example of this is “Jesus” programming that Carolyn and I have already written about in our book.

Another example can be something as simple as a religious script, such as, “If you don’t forgive others, God won’t forgive you.” (Taken from Matthew 6:15.) Programmers can use this verse as a manipulation tactic in the extreme, whereby the child is forced to “accept and allow” abuses to take place over and over again out of the fear that if they don’t, then they have an evil heart of unforgiveness that will cause God to not forgive them, thereby sending them to hell.

Or the religious script “obey those who have rule over you” is used to force compliance with things that are abusive.

● Third, having a strong religious front helps the child to cling to hope and faith, two aspects that will give them a better chance at surviving the programming. It gives them a reason to live, in other words. It’s true that religious guilt and shame often accompanies this hope and faith, but even guilt and shame serve to keep the child (and eventually, the adult survivor) stuck in unsafe, unhealthy environments and habits long after programming is over, which in turn serves to keep programming hidden and protected.

⇒ Training in the Physical in the Form of “Bible School”

In my mid-teens after I graduated high school, I attended one year of a so-called “bible school.” No, it wasn’t accredited, but it was a type of what was called an “intensive training program” that was run by the church I attended at the time. It was pretty much the beginning of what has become a wave of “supernatural” schools in the physical, similar to the infamous Bethel schools. While what we did and learned in this training was probably peanuts compared to what goes on now, it was still a brainwashing-rich environment that saturated us in so-called “Christian” occult teachings.

I went to this school 5 days a week, Monday through Friday, from 8 AM in the morning until…. Well, now that I’m thinking about it, I honestly can’t remember when our regular “school day” ended, because often, the end of the school day would overlap with the beginning of church services, or with the beginning of different types of outreach programs in the evening, or with whatever was going on at the church. It wasn’t uncommon for me to not get home until close to midnight. Not every night, no, but many nights.

Our typical day would start with an hour’s worth of prayer. Some days that prayer was more like a mumbled “Hi God,” followed by an hour’s worth of what we jokingly referred to as “meditation,” or, “resting in the spirit” — an activity that left little red hatch marks indented on our foreheads from the texture of the padded pews that we knelt before, and sticky drool smeared on our cheeks.

In other words, sometimes we’d just fall asleep.

Sometimes the prayer would get pretty intense, though, in the typical charismatic way, although not as intense as I guess it could have been if we were so inclined to “press into the spirit.” Teenagers plus 8 AM does not usually equal enthusiasm, so we were not normally inclined to press into anything, except our bodies into the comfort of the pews.

After prayer/nap time, we’d do a lot of reading, studying, discussing, and taking tests on books written by charismatic authors such as Copeland, Hagin, Hinn, Jakes, Parsley, and dozens more that I can’t even remember. After a while, all the books started to sound and read the same, and I guess you could say I “dissociated” from a lot of what I read. Not from trauma, but just from sheer boredom, because they were all talking about the same things, over and over again: word of faith, name it claim it, manifesting your reality, being gods, money, prosperity, health, wealth, gold driveways, fancy cars, our entitlements as “sons of God,” et cetera. Salvation was not talked about a lot, except as an avenue through which to manifest and claim and speak one’s way into health, wealth, and prosperity. Pretty much your basic, run-of-the-mill, “Christian” witchcraft, forcefully contorting Scripture out of context and using them in such a way that elevated personal desires and ambitions over the will of the Father. But of course, I didn’t recognize it as being witchcraft then. While parts of me found it all simply bizarre and contradictory, for the most part I was busy trying to apply these “spiritual formulas” to my own life, until I finally got tired of trying to make it happen, got tired of the hypocrisy and the lies and the backstabbing and the cliques and the false promises and the hollow experiences that felt good at the time but afterwards left me depressed and seeking after more… all those things that made up “churchianity” grew wearisome, and I ended up leaving church altogether. But that’s another story.

We also read biographies of people such as Kathyrn Kuhlman, Aimee McPherson, and Smith Wigglesworth. I’ve forgotten even much of that material that I learned, but it did make for more interesting reading. However, in reading those biographies, the often subtle subtext left me with the feeling that those “mighty men and women of God” were liars and charlatans, partly because while they may have been long on spiritual manifestations (if I believed what was written, that is), they were certainly short on Godly character and decent human morality. This left me feeling uneasy in a way that I wasn’t able to recognize or reconcile until much later.

After lunch, we’d do other things, such as community outreaches. This usually entailed going into the same low-income apartment complexes and putting on the same shows for the same children week after week who would come up and “get saved” every time we showed up.

A couple of us girls objected to how the number of “salvations” were being tallied, but we were overruled. The number of people who were supposedly “getting saved” made us look like we were really doing good things for God.

It made some people feel like superheroes for Christ.

It just made me feel like a liar. I loved the kids and I loved putting on the shows, but I hated the lying numbers.

But most often, we’d be helping out with one of the many projects the co-pastor (the pastor’s wife) had going on with drama programs or music programs, cleaning the church, or running errands for people who worked there or for famous charismatic visitors that we had.

Any time there was a special conference from a special “prophetic, apostolic, or evangelistic” so-and-so, we were expected to serve in whatever capacity we were able. This usually meant us girls cleaned the church from top to bottom, in preparation for services, while the guys would get to do other stuff that would give them a chance to be possibly be in closer contact with those “special superheroes of charismania.” For instance, they might accidentally cross their paths while washing their cars, or something of the sort. There wasn’t a huge chance of them actually coming in contact with God’s “bigwigs” (I think it actually happened once for the guys, and they seemed to be very thrilled), but the idea of even washing the cars of the “anointed of God” was something that seemed to really excite them.

And I’m not being facetious. Just the idea of touching something that those “special men or women of God” had come in contact with, was thrilling to them. They once got excited because they had shined the actual shoes of some special someone-or-the-other.

They weren’t the only ones. Many people felt that way!

Personally speaking, however, I would have rather scrubbed toilets.

First, because I’ve never been a very social person — I usually just feel awkward around people — and so I preferred to stay in the background.

But more importantly, I didn’t really like them. There were many “big name” charismatics I came across, and I can’t think of a single one who didn’t have an arrogant and prideful spirit about them, so I didn’t care to spend time near them. This attitude was probably what hindered me from getting too far in churchianity.

This same attitude also hindered me from getting too far in working alongside Satan’s hierarchy, because I felt the same about the fallen angels that I worked alongside as well as most of the people I worked with in the astral. This is probably a different story altogether, but it’s not surprising to me now that my attitude was similar in both circumstances. The fallen were using those so-called “mighty men and women of God,” so it’s no wonder the character of the men and women reflected the character of the fallen who were using them — the very ones that they, in fact, served, whether consciously or unconsciously.

Anyway, we were encouraged to use our “abilities” that we were supposed to be learning in classes and all the monotonous books we had been reading. This meant, in part, that we were “exercising our faith” through prayer and proclamation, including prophetic song, prophetic words, prophetic dance, et cetera. I certainly was not gifted in prophetic dance, unless a hippopotamus trying tiptoe across a roomful of tacks was considered gifted….

But I certainly knew how to “pray” in the charismatic way, and so I’d join in with a few other people before every church service and “pray.” Without even realizing where my actions were coming from, I would do exactly as I had been taught to do in the astral realms: touch objects in the sanctuary and in the entrance areas (pews, walls, doors, tables —anything I could touch), and give them a “spiritual energy,” speaking what I considered to be a “blessing” to be passed on to whomever came in contact with the object I was touching. Certainly this is a type of “white” magic, but it’s witchcraft nonetheless. We are to pray for people, not pews (or any other object), and we are to pray for people in a way that is Biblical and according to Scripture.

So this is one good example of how my training in the supernatural was affecting what was going on in the physical.

⇒ Training in the Supernatural

☛ Update: to read about the charismatic (so -called “christian“) occult training I had in the supernatural through the “deliverance counseling” with Dan Duval of Bride Ministries, follow this link: https://askcarolynandloren.wordpress.com/2018/03/17/additional-info-about-occult-training/

Aside from the teachings at “bible school,” the general indoctrination and brainwashing that had gone on throughout my life at home and at church, and the programming, the bulk of the overtly occult training took place in the supernatural with mentors or teachers in the astral. I don’t like talking about this a lot, mainly because I’m afraid people are going to think I’m totally nuts, and on some days, I wouldn’t necessarily disagree with that assessment. 😀

But at the risk of being labeled “cuckoo,” on the off chance that someone finds this helpful, here goes….

Some of this training in the supernatural was one-on-one with occult mentors that I believe were human (although, I suppose I could be wrong about this), but some of the training and schooling took place in different schools and school-like environments that are set up in the supernatural. Carolyn and I both have been to these types of schools and have had very similar experiences. So I suppose if I’m nuts, then she is too.


I wasn’t always physically aware of the schools and the training in the supernatural, and when I was, I began to believe they were just an odd dream.

The types of things that are taught in the astral realms filter down to affect the individual in the physical, whether they are aware of the astral training or not. Some of the things that I was taught were occult doctrine using the Bible as a basis. This started when I was very young. Three? Four, maybe? I don’t know… maybe I was about six. I honestly can’t be sure, and right now, I don’t remember a lot of details from those early days, and for now, I prefer to not remember too much more. What I’ve remembered is enough to keep me busy “processing” for a while….

But even though I don’t remember this “teacher’s” name, I remember what he looked like. He was very tall and thin, with long white hair, and a long, white beard that reached way down, probably past his waist but I’m not completely sure. His face, however, was smooth and young and very pale. It made for an interesting contrast. I realize now that he was a fallen angel that had disguised himself, of course, but all the kids liked him. He didn’t look evil and demonic, nor did he act evil and demonic.

Appearances certainly can be deceptive….

In this early school, we started off with the very basics, using a book that he taught us from. He took the beginning chapters of Genesis and taught occult doctrine from there. The teaching was concerning dimensions and drawing parallels between ascending through the physical dimensions and ascending or “evolving” through the spiritual dimensions. Somehow, he managed to fit the days of creation in there somewhere. Just a lot of esoteric rubbish that I don’t even want to think about anymore.

As I got older, one particular school I went to taught arts — both fine arts, such as music, drawing, and painting, as well as language arts. I took music for a while, but was transferred to language arts, which wasn’t something I really wanted, but in those schools, there was no choice. We also studied history and sciences, including social sciences, such as humanities and psychology. Oddly enough (odd in my mind, at any rate), we also learned mathematics.

Each subject was taught from an occult viewpoint, but since math wasn’t always my strong point unless I switched to a part of me who was good at math, I’m not sure how the mathematical concepts related to the occult. It probably had something to do with sacred geometry, as well as theoretical types of mathematics that could have more to do with esoteric concepts, but I’m just guessing. Maybe my youngest son is correct, though, when he says math is from Satan….

I’m kidding… sort of… 😀

When I was older, I also helped teach in the astral. The students were usually very young children between about three and six. Sometimes they were as old as seven or eight, because children weren’t placed in groups according to age, but according to ability, and as they were older, according to similar assignments they were being trained for.

My job was to assist the main teacher by teaching ethics as they did their regular activities. Basically, teaching them the difference between what is right and what is wrong, and between what was acceptable behavior and what was not.

Which is horribly ironic and contradictory… but that’s the job I had, and I was good at it.

Not all children are taught ethics. Some, as I learned, go to different schools in the astral where they are taught that there is no such thing as a moral “right or wrong,” and the only “wrong” decision is not making one at all. Although there were parts of me that were taught the same thing, for the most part I was taught these concepts from the “light” side (except for those few Satanic alters I mentioned earlier). But these particular children I came across were taught these things from the “dark” side. The “left-hand path,” so to speak. I don’t know what they were like in the physical, but in the astral, they were sociopathic with very honed occult abilities. They were driven only by the desires they had at that moment — no heart or conscience whatsoever. Well… most of them, anyway. I reached one of them. At least, I think I did… unless he was manipulating the entire situation, which is possible, too. But since I was sent there as a sort of punishment, for basically not being cooperative, it wasn’t expected for me to get through to any of the children. So when I did, the staff was very angry with me, and I quickly left.

Finding Freedom and Healing

Finding freedom and healing from these types of things takes time. Usually lots of time. And that’s okay. That’s normal. 🙂

In our book, Carolyn and I wrote about “Finding Freedom,” so I don’t have much more to add in that regards. But I do want to say that if a part of you is stuck in one of these astral schools, there is hope. It might take a while to find freedom from this, though, for any variety of reasons, the least of which is that the part of you that is stuck may enjoy being there and may not want to leave. It can be a matter of purpose and identity: we don’t want to give up what gives us a sense of purpose, of belonging, and that gives us an identity.

But if you focus on the right thing — building and nurturing a relationship with your Heavenly Father —He will set you free in His own timing. So don’t get discouraged if it doesn’t happen right away.

Here’s my experience with this.

One astral school I went to — the one where I remembered learning all the math and science and history and whatnot — I had been going to for a very long time, probably since I was in my late teens or early twenties. There was a part of me stuck there — that’s where she lived — and when I, as the front alter, would show up at the school, it was usually on big test days that took place every several months or so. Not always. Sometimes, for whatever reason, that part of me wanted a break. Sort of like playing hooky, I guess you could say…. But I was always there on the big test days because they (the teachers and mentors) wanted to see how much of the astral learning was actually filtering down to the “me” in the physical. If I passed the tests, I’d move on to a higher level class. If I failed, I would continue to stay in that class.

With math, I barely skated by. In history, I didn’t always fare too well, either. But in other subjects like science, different types of social studies, and language arts, I did very well.

While going through so-called “deliverance counseling,” this astral school was supposed to have been destroyed, and for several months after supposedly destroying this place, I wasn’t aware of attending there at all. So I assumed that it had been demolished and I was free.

Well… I found out later, after I quit the counseling, that it hadn’t been destroyed. I was still going there. So much for “deliverance ministry”…

I didn’t know what to do, except to just keep on doing what my Heavenly Father had shown me, which was basically, “focus on my relationship with Him.” A couple of months passed, I guess it was, and one night, I was pulled into that same school, into a philosophy class, I think it was. Some sort of humanities class, at any rate. There was a man teaching there. He had a pleasant smile and a relaxed, laid-back manner that should have put me at ease, but I knew that I shouldn’t be there, and I wanted to leave but didn’t know how. I was feeling some anxiety.

We arranged our chairs in a large circle, and he straddled one of the seats and started teaching on the evolution of mankind. Not so much a physical evolution, although he talked about that too, but he was talking more about the spiritual evolution. The deeper meaning of evolution.

He had a very casual way of teaching, making us feel as if we were equals, not students, and after a while, he stopped and asked us to share what we thought about the concept of “god,” and to share our thoughts about the journey to reach this divine-ness within ourselves. (In case you aren’t clear, he wasn’t talking about Creator God, because he was teaching from an atheistic point-of-view, but he was talking about the occult idea of the “god” — the so-called “divine — within all of us.) A couple of students shared their ideas, and then I finally mustered up the courage to share my thoughts. I started sharing my testimony about why I knew that God was real, and about the saving power of Jesus Christ. I imagine it sounds unbelievable, but I felt the Spirit of God with me that day, and in any other situation, I would have stumbled over my words and not been able to speak. But it’s as if God took over my mouth and helped me speak things that I would have never had the courage or the looseness of tongue to say.

It looked as if the teacher wanted to stop me, but every time he opened his mouth, nothing came out. I only spoke for about four or five minutes (maybe not even that long), and when I was done, the class was silent for a few tense moments. Then the teacher, his tongue finally loosed, turned to someone else and asked them to share their thoughts.

That was the last time I attended that school, and that part of me was finally set free.

The essence of what I’m trying to say is this: although the point of these astral schools can be to have occult knowledge and information filter down to the physical person and to affect their behavior and thoughts and decisions, the reverse can also occur. But focus on the Solution to your every problem — your Heavenly Father — and on submitting to His will, and He will do the work in you and in every part of you, in His own timing.

God’s solution was not to take me out of that school right away, but it worked out exactly the way it was meant to work out, and over time, He set me free. Not according to my will, but according to His will; not according to my timing, but according to His timing.

So focus on your Heavenly Father and allow Him to do the work in you. He is more than capable! 🙂

Loren ♥

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14 thoughts on “Q&A: Luciferianism, Occult Training, and Dispelling Some Misunderstandings

  1. Wow, what a great, thorough article. I must admit, when I first started reading Carolyn’s website, I thought “Coocoo for Coco Puffs!”, but I quickly saw how she, and now Loren are grounded in Christ. You take things back to the simplicity of the word, and point back to Jesus. My mother was a prophet, and many of the subjects you talk about ring a bell with me, even more so as my spiritual gifts are being expanded. And I’m glad the two of you found each other.
    And we have dealt with an infiltrator in our church; a self-proclaimed “prophet”. That was an ugly situation…
    God bless you both.


  2. Very interesting. Thanks for the time and effort you put into this. Since your step dad got you involved, and later your surrender to the Father who delivered you from going back into the astral school, then the question I have is this…..were your children adversely affected? Did they attend the schools too? What does a parent do when the children attend after the parents get free? Pray over the children , and surrender them to the Father?


    1. Hi Susan, Thanks for reading. 🙂

      To be clear: my mother was very much involved, too, at certain times and in specific ways, so it wasn’t just her second husband.

      Some of my children are affected in certain ways more so than others, but it’s not anything I want to get into right now. 🙂 But I don’t know if my children have gone to the astral schools or not. I don’t believe they have, and if they have, they’ve not told me. With the issues that we do deal with, though, it’s definitely a matter of praying and asking the Father to help, as well the practicality of being supportive and loving parents, of course. Things have gotten MUCH better, but it’s still a work in progress.


  3. Fascinating read! Blessings to both you and Carolyn. It’s not always easy for us who have never walked in your shoes to recognize a lot of the demonic activities you are exposing and for that I’m truly grateful that you’re shining a light on them for us!

    One thing that still perplexes me is the difference between the *real* ‘asking Jesus into your heart’ vs the counterfeit. Is it because in the conterfeit you’re not told to admit you’re a sinner, confess Jesus died on the cross for your sins, accept His gift of salvation?


    1. Hi Patricia,

      “Asking Jesus into our heart” is not something that is based on Scripture that has been properly interpreted. I don’t see where this is a Biblical doctrine at all. Speaking with our mouth that “Jesus is Lord” and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead is Biblical. (Romans 10:9-10) Asking Jesus as the incarnate person of God to enter into our spiritual space is not. Jesus Christ ascended into Heaven so that the Spirit of God would come and be with us (John 7:37-39, John 15:26, John 16:7, Acts 1:1-5, et cetera); not Himself as the person of God. The work of Jesus Christ is finished, and He is sitting at the right hand of God (Mark 16:19, Acts 2:33, 1 Peter 3:22, Hebrews 10:12, et cetera). When we are saved, the Spirit of God dwells within us. But not Jesus Christ.

      And neither is salvation received by asking the Spirit of God to come and dwell within us; but we receive the free gift of salvation by believing and confessing Jesus Christ. Then, once we receive salvation, the Spirit of God comes and dwells within us.

      When people “ask Jesus into their heart,” something that is not based on Scripture, this action has a chance of leading people into inviting a false “Jesus” into their spiritual space, whether it’s at that time, or at another time, and being led by them. Like I wrote, I can’t say this always happens. I’m not omniscient. I don’t know all people and every situation. 🙂 All I am saying is “asking Jesus into your heart” it is not Biblical.

      Many people are being fooled by false Christs who are appearing to them and guiding them, leading them into false doctrine. Jesus warned this would happen. He said, “…if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. See, I have told you in advance.” (Matthew 24:23-25)

      This may be less likely to happen with some people if they had a Biblical view on what it means to receive the Father’s gift of salvation through Jesus Christ.

      This is my understanding, but as with all things, I am open to being corrected by Scripture that has been interpreted properly and within context.

      Thanks for reading and commenting! ❤


  4. Hey Loren. Do you believe you can pray the gay away. And do you think gay people possessed by Lucifer when they are in the womb, or possibly before? I find this hard to swallow.


    1. Hi Shawn, this is definitely off topic, and the answer is more complex than I have the room (and the knowledge) to speak about. But I’ll do my best to share my opinion very quickly. First, it might be possible for babies to be possessed in the womb, but I’m not sure. If it’s possible, I don’t believe this would be limited to only those who are homosexual, however. But the basic answer to your question is: “I don’t know.” As with all things, I’d have to see Biblical evidence.

      Second, healing and deliverance comes from our Heavenly Father through Jesus Christ, no matter what the situation. Prayer, as I’ve blogged about before (https://carolynandloren.com/2017/12/04/bible-study-prayer/), is the act of constantly relinquishing our will and submitting to the will of the Father. So yes, prayer is for every situation and for every sin that we suffer from, no matter what the situation is, or no matter what the sin is. That said, there are some who have strongholds and deep-rooted issues that they need counseling for to help them overcome — someone to pray with them and to encourage them to keep going in the right direction. This might be the case with some who are homosexual, it might not be, I don’t know. I guess the situation depends on the person. While I don’t struggle with homosexuality, there are other issues I deal with that I pray constantly over, and I could probably use a pastoral counselor (or someone similar), but for whatever reason, my Heavenly Father has chosen to not send someone my direction. But I still pray, and I still do my best to submit to His will. And I trust that in His time and in His way, He will set me free. 🙂

      Often in our struggle to be free from sinful behaviors, addictions, thoughts, et cetera, we have the tendency to focus on the problem that we have, rather than focus on the One who is the answer! Healing and deliverance comes not from trying to do the right thing, but from our Heavenly Father. So if someone you know is struggling with homosexuality, just be their friend. Love them in the same way that God loves you, in spite of all of the issues and struggles that you have. And pray for them, encouraging them to focus not on their problems, but on building a relationship with the Heavenly Father.

      Blessings! ❤


      1. Thanks Loren, and sorry for being off topic. This is a topic I struggle with because I have gay friends, and having talked to them. I am convinced it is a biological issue. I can’t imagine anyone choosing to be gay. Even in this day and age. It makes life so much more complicated.


        1. Like I said, I’m not very knowledgeable on it. I’ve read something (I can’t recall where, and I can’t give a citation) that there may be chemical something-or-other that can disrupt proper hormone development. Or effect it differently, or something… I think it’s epigenetics or something. I’m sorry to be so vague. I’m definitely not a geneticist! And it’s possible that it’s a bunch of quack-science, but maybe you can do some research on it. The gay men I have known been sexually abused by other men when they were a child, and some of them (I’m not sure about all, though) had mother figures that either were abusive as well, or neglectful in some way, either purposefully or unintentionally. That’s not to say that all homosexual individuals suffered from these past issues, obviously, and maybe it eventually has nothing to do with them being gay anyway, but my observations is that it seems to be environmental, although I know that’s not a popular viewpoint. One additional thing, however, is that I don’t believe that just because a male is born with more feminine qualities, that he is automatically “gay,” and that because a female is born with more masculine qualities, that she is automatically “lesbian.” Or whatever the politically correct terms are to use…. I’m not up to date on the latest, sorry. 🙂

          But whatever the reason, like you say, being homosexual certainly seems to make life complicated for them. 😦 The solutions to the problems we all have in our life are ultimately found with our Heavenly Father. I pray that you can be a good friend and show them the way to building a relationship with the Father, where there is healing and freedom for everyone, no matter where we come from in life. He accepts us just the way we are, and when we are saved, His Spirit works within us to change us and free us from our bondage. I pray that your friends will come to know this peace! ❤


          1. Thank you for your reply. It sure is a deep topic. I don’t know that we will ever know. The people that puzzle me, are people who don’t behave in a typically gay fashion. (I think that is what I want to say) Gay women who seem very feminine, or gay men who are very macho.


  5. Thanks once again for taking the time to share all this in such a clear, coherent manner. To me, this information is priceless. I pray to our Heavenly Father to always find info like this, and for the time to read it, even if not in as timely a fashion as I like due to the busy times we’re in. I also give thanks to you and our Heavenly Father and pray in our Lord Jesus Christ of Nazareths’ name for our guidance and protection. Keep sharing your well written insights!


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